by Mad Sweeney 21 Replies latest jw friends
but why seek without if it's something in your heart?
Seeking something without, that you already know in your heart is out there.
Its really both. But its also hard to speak in the sense of 'religion' because that is tainted - with organized doctrines, rules, traditions, etc, that can have nothing to do with the heart. Faith is not so tainted, and comes from the heart.
Agonus, I think you and have seen the same on this matter before :) But what did you mean by overlap?
Tammy
I'm with you Tammy, but religion is just the topic here. That's why I made the distinction of following vs. expressing something from your heart. One can have the intent of just communicating an experience to others rather than have that be made into something to follow. As for any possibility of being misled, that might be where the seeker is not particularly clear about just what is in their own heart, and there's just the tendency to follow someone who seems to know.
I suppose you can say religion is kind of like outsourced faith, which of course makes no sense. It is actually not even just a matter of mind control, but also mind over heart in a sense - and if the mind is really off in its beliefs and such it just doesn't leave much room for faith or anything heart based.
Thanks, Mark, for clarifying. And to answer the question in the essence of 'religion', then yes, I think it could have been a mistake, or a way to control people, or even as an honest attempt to keep people 'in line' and bring them to faith. Probably different reasons for different religions and/or religious leaders.
I suppose you can say religion is kind of like outsourced faith, which of course makes no sense
It makes no sense, I agree, but I think this is a pretty apt description.
Tammy
It may be useful to reframe the question in terms of less than fully conscious acts rather than a mistake. It is conceivable that someone has a shift in their consciousness and tries to communicate it as best as they can, but not only might it be misunderstood but the result may be that it creates a following rather than prompt others to look within themselves for the same experience. If someone was naive about stages of consciousness development they may very well not appreciate that some people are just not going to see things that way at least for a while. A person may be a reluctant leader, and things could even take a backward step if it appeals to their ego and they actually end up having the power get to their head..
"Knowing"... and "wishful thinking"...
Hard to know. You know?
The only thing I'm more sure about than the things I think I know for sure...
Is the fact that I'm pretty sure I really DON'T know for sure.
If religion is "outsourced faith", then... wait for it...
Shouldn't we all be Hindus?
RIM SHOT
"Knowing"... and "wishful thinking"...
Gotcha :)
My beliefs:
Before religion, there was worship.
Worship, which means to show worthiness, is a natural response to those in a higher position. .
Religion, which means to bind or tie together, came about after man's fall out with his Creator, when those of like disposition and thought bound themselves together with rituals, ceremonies, priests, etc.
I don't believe the invention of religion was a mistake as much as a rebellion against the Creator.
I've been reading the Book of Jasher, and I'm struck with how many knowingly took a stand against those who worshipped the Creator.
Syl
*scratches chin* Hmm, a lot of work DOES get outsourced to India these days..
Of course what we do know pretty clearly is that any effort to get others to follow does not encourage them to exercise their own development. Even if someone was pretty even handed if they just go by what someone else says they're not taking responsibility for themselves.
God invented religion so it was not a mistake!
