What Its All About - Lurkers

by Amazing 32 Replies latest jw friends

  • Amazing
    Amazing

    What It’s All About

    It’s All about Lurkers: There are at least three main types of Lurkers, 1. A JW with doubts, concerns, feeling that something is wrong with the religion, 2. An ex-JW who is caught between two worlds, and does not feel free yet to live a normal life, 3. A non-JW who is either involved with a JW, or a relative of a JW, or is in the middle of being studied with by the JWs.

    Defining Moments: Everything we write, say, and do is observed by the Lurkers. In a single moment, or a series of collected comments, we will eventually cause a Lurker to have a defining moment ... a point in time where they decide that being a JW is not for them anymore, or that they can stop living between two worlds, or cease studying, and not join the religion. We may never know who we help, or how many.

    Flame Wars and Character Attacks: When we get embroiled in these, whether we are the instigator or the brunt of the attacks ... what are we really doing? How will this affect Lurkers? Will they see that being a JW is not healthy for them? Or will they in a single moment decide that what ex-JWs have become is far worse than being a JW?

    My Personal Goals: I am not proud of having been a JW. I am not happy that I brought many people into the religion. I think back about my first study, Bob and Cathy, and how he finally became an Elder, and his two of kids Reg. Pioneers. I see how they sacrificed what was at one time a happy and financially productive future for the false and misleading beliefs of the Watch Tower Society. Yes, I was ignorant, and preached what I believed ... but as a result, a family of three, and now grandchildren of theirs are all part of a religion that uses them. They won’t listen to me, for they shun me as an apostate.

    So, in a way, I hope that by posting my experiences and views, I can make a difference for Lurkers ... I don’t have to know who, or how many, and I don’t need or ask for praise. The important thing is that something I contribute may help them have a defining moment, a moment that may mean the difference between a good normal life, and not one that robs them of their talents, careers, and ultimate happiness.

    The Series Style: I like to take a topic and post a number of shorter aspects and angles ... not to be praised, or have someone hang on my words as alleged by some, but to elicit comments from others with similar or better experiences. The Justice Series became just that ... as many other ex-elders also contributed some of the JC experiences they had. How does this help Lurkers? They see that the problems with JW Justice is not confined to one ex-elder who may have had just one local set of problems, but they see that the problem is systemic of the religion ... and that their own observation are not because of their attitude as the Society would have them believe, but that their concerns are legitimate, real, and deserve their serious consideration as they contemplate the possibility of leaving or joining the religion.

    My Exit Series: I have posted some short personal accounts before, and as comments to the threads of others. But I have never really given a detailed account. So as stated in my post yesterday, since it is close to my ten year mark, I thought that such a series would be good ... and would garner many similar valuable comments that contribute to what Lurkers are reading. They can see the struggles, the indecision, the doubts, the fears, the guilt, the pain, and the loss of what we encountered.

    The Lurkers can see by our comments that we were not JWs who sat on the sidelines ... a kind of Jack-JW like there are Jack-Mormons. No, they can see they many hear spent 10, 20, 30 or more years as various levels as Reg., Pioneer, MS, Elder, and maybe some COs or DOs, and many who served a number of years at Bethel. They can see that we were true believers ... and that our leaving was at great price to ourselves, because we could no longer take the flaws of the system as something to be ignored. The flaws of the JW religion are far more serious, and at times seriously harmful or even deadly.

    Information, Ideas, and Experiences: Information is very valuable, no question about that. But information by itself can be boring and dry. Yet, we see a great talent on this forum. Some are able to take the dry prophetic stuff, or sexual content like masturbation ... and with humor, make it come alive – and help someone lurking to grow. In a different style, we see some using irrefutable arguements, wading through a lot of material and posts sometimes very long expose’ on the false arguments, misleading information and at times pure lies that the Society tells. We see some who have are talented and have developed expertise in fields of psychology, and can add great benefit with their knowledge, ideas and analysis. Many give experiences ... so that the human aspect, the feelings, the struggle can be seen for what it is ... and Lurkers can take all these contributions and begin to see a complete picture.

    Why Personal Attacks cause Harm: Most competent adults can see through personal attacks and arguments. And that is the case here on this forum well. The real concern that bothers me is not because I am attacked ... I am just a screen name, and when I go home at night ... the PC goes off ... and poof! It is behind me. Rather, what worries me is what a young person, maybe a 16, 17, or 18 year old who family are JWs, and they are not certain they really want the JW life. They do not as easily see through flame wars and character attacks. No, they have their whole life before them, and they are at a crucial moment of decision ... their mind is open. They are thinking, weighing, pondering, and observing.

    Such type of Lurkers cannot buy Crisis of Conscience because Mom or Dad or siblings will get on their back about it. They cannot post here for fear that somehow they will be caught. But they can read and think and enjoy the privacy of their own thoughts. What we say, how we say it, what we talk about, and how we treat others may make the difference for just one of these young Lurkers or doubting JW. How crushing it would be to one day discover that something we said, or how we treated other posters contributed to a young adult or doubting JW sticking with the Watch Tower religion ... especially when all this could have been avoided ... we could have down the opposite ... but lost the opportunity because we felt it more important to fight, tear down, and get licks in on someone we don’t like.

    My Sincere Desire: I just want to be a contributor to the good of others. I want to see doubting JWs make the leap to a normal life. I would love to know that a torn ex-JW can make the final leap to freedom. I want to see a young person seize their future and opportunities ... and not sacrifice their lives on an altar of lies and lost opportunities. Recently I noticed that there are 4,150 registered posters ... all who have something useful to say, to contribute, to share, and to make a difference. Not all feel comfortable doing that just yet ... and may never ... but many do.

    Power in our hands: Recently, much was debated about power and the abuse of power by JW elders, and the lack of power by many JWs. Here, in this forum and others like it ... we have equalized the publishing power of the Watch Tower. In the stroke of a few keys we have access to information 24 hours a day ... at little or no cost, and we are using a type of media that the Watch Tower scorns, rather than embraces. Collectively, we have the power in our hands, to go around the Society, and get information, knowledge, and experiences out to people ... faster ... more efficiently ... and up to date. We have the power to make a difference ... as individual contributors and collectively as a kind of team ... and how we use that power, the wisdom we exercise, the care taken, can make a difference for a Lurker ... can be the defining moment that frees them, or condemns them. [8d}

  • RunningMan
    RunningMan

    We must realize that, to the lurkers, we represent Apostasy.

    So, we must be careful not to stumble any of them by setting a bad example.

  • Infrared
    Infrared

    Good topic amazing. I have always enjoyed your post and responses to various threads. When I first started having doubts, I personally didnt have the urge to lurk in chat rooms. I read the valuable info on sites such as Free Minds and the Watchtower Observer. I read the many personal examples, including yours, that drove home to me the fact that I was part of a deseptive religon. I was fully convinced that I could not go on living a lie before I ever came to chat rooms. When I did start coming here it was a breath of fresh air to me. We have people from different backrounds, and different personalities, who represent a variety of views that, as witnesses, did not have the freedom to express. Of course we have some flamers here that love to get people rowled up, but it is so great to come here and not have to agree with everything everyone says, and to voice our views and shape our views on our own, without the threat of a judicial commitee. For the lurkers out there I strongly suggest questioning your current beliefs, and reading through the valuable information on sites such as Free Minds and the Watchtower Observer. Form your own opinions, and do not be so concerned with the content of all the post here. We all come from a backround of suppression of thought.(those that where JW's anyway) Then if your mind has become made up that you do not believe WT doctrine anymore, you will be much more open to forums such as these, where you are not preprogrammed in your responses and defensive when someone here says something you dont agree with.

  • waiting
    waiting

    Howdy,

    Correct, to a point. This place also serves to allow us - jw's, xjw's, christians, agnostics, atheists, English, Canadian, American, Swedish, Norwegian, Australian, Blacks, Whites, Spanish, Oriental, males, females, gays (and all inbetweens), young, not-so-young, damned old, ignorant, intelligent, plain stupid, - ALL of us having a common denominator - to learn & talk about our commonality - being a member of Jehovah's Witnesses, and the impact of that experience upon our lives.

    Another thing we learn if we stick around here - we learn to express our opinion, to give & take discussion, to back up our points, learn to apologize, learn to press an issue of importance to us.

    And that means it won't go smoothly sometimes. But we learn - and we gain the delicious freedom that ensues from learning.

    The "Lurkers"? Sure, they're important - but so are we. We come here for a variety of reasons - not the least to learn some new jokes.

    waiting

  • Amazing
    Amazing

    Hi Waiting: Excellent points! Yes, this forum has also served as a kind of therapy ... where we all have grown, learned, and gained from one another. Maybe that is among the reasons why I also stay ... because I keep on making new discoveries from the many contributions of others. Sometimes painful ... sometimes refreshing ... sometimes funny ... sometimes sobering. Thanks again.

  • concerned mama
    concerned mama

    Amazing, what an amazing post!
    The thought you brought forth in your section on the harm of personal attacks is something I have been concerned about. Because the JW young man that I know is only 15, I have been very concerned how he would deal with the "flame wars" should he see them. I don't think he has the maturity yet to understand what is happening. The other thing is I don't think he, or many others have the time or inclination to follow the situation to where there is often some very civilized resolution such as apologies, or agreeing to disagree. They only see the "anger" part.
    In any case I am very grateful to everyone who posts on the board for the insight into a completely different, somewhat scary world.

  • Will Power
    Will Power

    "Scary World" is exactly right. I am not a JW but have been thrown into its world against my will. I first started researching about 3.5 yrs ago, I cannot describe the emotions I went thru. I feel like I WAS IN and am now out, and experiencing the shunning that is spoken of here. Its scary all right.
    Being a long time lurker on this board allowed me to see the human aspects, put a face on it, and learn from your experiences.
    I wish this board was the first place I had come to.
    Amazing, that was an amazing post. I'm a product of the good it can do.
    Thank you all

  • AjaxMan
    AjaxMan

    Will Power:

    "Scary World" is exactly right. I am not a JW but have been thrown into its world against my will. I first started researching about 3.5 yrs ago, I cannot describe the emotions I went thru. I feel like I WAS IN and am now out, and experiencing the shunning that is spoken of here. Its scary all right.
    Being a long time lurker on this board allowed me to see the human aspects, put a face on it, and learn from your experiences.
    I wish this board was the first place I had come to.

    How true that is! you are echoing my feelings as I just started to research since last July. I was lurking this board until I signed up in mid-December. I hope you can email me with your experiences as to what brought you to this board since you were not a JW as I was never a JW.

    Amazing - Thanks for this thread. You really hit it in the nail regarding to lurkers as I was one for a while before I joined up.

    Ajax

  • Focus
    Focus

    Amazing wrote:

    It’s All about Lurkers

    Sadly, that is incorrect. Correct would be:

    It SHOULD be all about Lurkers.

    which is I am sure what you intended (Amazing often writes to intelligently guide, and as such speaks often of how things should be, providing information as to how to get there).

    What "it" is about (as distinct from how it should be) is a mixture of giving an honest witness to lurkers, who are to be encouraged at every opportunity, and also about the feelings and emotions of individual board participants who are themselves in varying stages of recovery - or of denial that they need to recover.

    In one way or another, and to a greater or lesser degree, the Watchtower's cunning plan ("Design-A-Mind-Control-Cult" by joining up the dots) has blighted the lives of almost every participant here (wolves - and idiots/trolls like Obves - excepted).

    As I fundamentally and purposively agree with Amazing, it is moot why I ever spend my time responding to some of the more childish comments made in this (and in other) forums. Usually, I ignore them. When I do respond to fluff (as in recently), I take every opportunity whilst so doing to "render a good witness" by introducing some Watchtower-related tidbit into the answer. It is possible that some of the more braindead participants - or inexperienced lurkers - may even feel I am quoting the Watchtower approvingly... I feel that the best way to open the closed mind is to use the literature of the sect - in ways that the (often cunning) authors did not quite anticipate.

    Many here are more concerned with getting dubbies off their doorstep - rather than inviting them in for a cup of java, as I and other members of the Honey Class would!

    And now I move on to what Amazing did NOT say... but should have said.

    Were this forum not to have occasional spats (sorry, "adjustments in viewpoint"), some lurker might conclude that certain things were stage-managed for the benefit of ensanering the unwary.. they would not know we would do no such thing! It might even lead them to wondering if Fredhall, You Know and their "kind" of venomous jW are something other than genuine, dyed-in-the-blood dub-dubs... they might even reason that we would have invented this Pyrrhic Class, if they did not actually exist. They might believe that some of the newbies who come in with a leading, and so revealing, question are other than wholly bona fide: a bit like many of the query-contributors to the Questions From Readers section of The Watchtower.

    Think about it.

    Just being real - ourselves - and celebrating our diversity (with anecdotes, zany stuff and quarrels too - with thought-provoking contents included), appears like a breath of fresh air to some dub lurkers - exactly the sort of dub lurker whom we have a reasonable prospect of gainfully informing. One has to the face the fact that with many dubs, it is simply economically non-viable to spend the time showing them that their entire life has been based on and wasted on a set of cunning lies and tricks.

    Take the Prickly/Nnoderator Class photo argument now. It illustrates to the lurker WHY some apparently rational adult would be terrified that their family might know they were participating in these places! Sure, we understand why. But many lurkers may not - or may be aware of it, but never have projected themselves there.

    A variety of methods work because there are a variety of people enmeshed in or involved with the Watchtower in a variety of ways...

    Not to forget that the best work is keeping people out of the cult in the first place. Information [is] Class!

    Enough said! I will return to my scrutiny of the "Older Sister Class" (as defined in http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=19972&site=3 ) to make sure that they do not backslide in their work.

    So should I apologize for my "Independent Thinking", which correctly identifies me as being from ""Satan""? We all know who told the first lie in the Bible, now didn't we? Check out Gen. 2:17 (then read Gen. 1:14 so you know a day means a day here)...

    --
    Focus
    (A Battler for Hearts and Minds Class)

  • Will Power
    Will Power

    Focus
    I agree people here are just people. You take the good, the bad, and the ugly, (no offense to the ugly ones - you know who you are).
    There are enough good posts that way out number the arguments. Sometimes under the cover of anonymity is the only way to vent. I being a lurker turned poster can say I support this group therapy.

    the comment about inviting them in is exactly what I "teach" the people I run into about what to do when they come to your door. Too bad they stay clear of my house.

    I can't get into details because I'm one of the paranoid ones. I'm working on my marriage. I am not the same person before this shite happened that is for sure. Talk about being born again! It almost feels like I've been "called" to educate. The hard part is learning how & when to do it, being respectful, loving and sympathetic.
    I'm working on it and when I write my book, you can all have copies!

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