WT Jan 2011 - Grieving Holy Spirit Defined?

by sabastious 28 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  WTWizard

  DORKHOOD AHEAD!

  Obeying these rules is a sure way to make a complete dork out of you. Suppose a "sister" is listening to some "bad" songs, and you are aware of it. Or, you are supposed to make a firm stand against listening to Journey because the PIG that dragged you into the cancer self-righteously bashes Journey. There is nothing wrong with this course--maybe the songs are not really all that bad after all. You "correct" this, and of course you are going to get a negative reaction. It will also make this person hardened against any counsel you have to offer, even if it is legitimate. So, you are supposed to devalue this kind of friend because they will not get rid of a "bad" song.

  In this case, 1Thess 4:11 should be heeded. Failure to heed that scripture can lead to dorkhood.
• 

  Ding

  The long quote supplied by Blondie provides a great example of how the Watchtower obfuscates.

  Step 1: Quote a scripture that shows Watchtower teaching to be wrong (here, the teaching that the Holy Spirit is an impersonal force).

  " It was the apostle Paul who wrote: "Do not be grieving God’s holy spirit." (Ephesians 4:30)"

  Step 2: State your critics' conclusion in a watered down version ("an INDICATION") attributed to an anonymous group ("SOME") whose further evidence or arguments won't be mentioned at all in the article. Make sure you keep "holy spirit" in lower case.

  "Some take these words to be an indication that the holy spirit is a person."

  Step 3: Appeal to your authority ("the faithful steward") and make the bald assertion that you have already frequently disproved their interpretation without actually doing so at all. (Note also the disparaging use of "so-called"):

  "However, publications of "the faithful steward" have often provided Scriptural and historical proof that the early Christians viewed the holy spirit neither as a person nor as a god equal to the Most High as part of a so-called Trinity"

  Step 4: Add a chapter and verse reference that has nothing whatever to do with the topic, confident that the reader won't bother to look it up or that, if he does, he will think it must somehow be relevant to the argument you made and that he is just too dumb to see the connection.

  (Luke 12:42) [which is an "FDS" verse having nothing whatever to do with the personality / non-personality of the Holy Spirit, which was the original point at issue.]

  Step 5: State your doctrine as if it somehow was supported by the bald assertions you just made:

  "So Paul was not referring to God’s holy spirit as a person."

  Step 6: Spend the rest of the long article indoctrinating your readers once again in your own dogma, confident that they will think you have just explained away a passage that you haven't refuted at all.
• 

  sabastious

  Thanks for the replies, lets keep this discussion going.

  -Sab
• 

  oldlightnewshite

  It works if you use the translation 'holy ghost' instead of holy spirit.

  Casper the friendly ghost used to get grieved when stinky, fatso and stretch used to pick on him.
• 

  Ding

  Near the end of the long quote Blondie provided there's this statement: " We would also be grieving the spirit if we deliberately undermined respect for spirit-appointed men in the congregation.—Acts 20:28; Jude 8."

  Once again, every topic boils down to obeying "God's organization" without question.

  To disrepect the organization's men is to disrepect Jehovah.

  To question the organization is to question Jehovah.

  To disobey the organization is to disobey Jehovah.

  That's the real "kingdom message" of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, and Jehovah's Witnesses learn it very well.
• 

  sabastious

  Casper the friendly ghost used to get grieved when stinky, fatso and stretch used to pick on him.

  Interesting.

  -Sab
• 

  flipper

  " We truly would grieve Jehovah's holy spirit " . Translation ( According to the WT society ) : If you don't confess your sins to your brothers or sisters or the elders , even though you feel you didn't sin, Jehovah will destroy you at Armageddon . And you'll be possessed by the Devil ! Period. ( This is just another control & conquer tactic the WT society uses to keep JW's in fear and under their control. ) Peace out, Mr. Flipper
• 

  William Penwell

  So we must rat out on our friends and shun them otherwise we may grieve the Holy Spirit. No wonder the Dubs are all screwed up
• 

  believingxjw

  In my opinion, this sort of thing encourages those who seek to lift themselves up in the congregation by "telling" on others. Small people who would inform on an elder or publisher just to get back or gain some status.

  More importantly, the Society should practice what it preaches. Ray's COC brought them to account and their reaction was not one of repentance but rather they hardened their hearts and became even more harsh as a result. It's so easy for the Governing Body to point the righteous finger at the teens and publishers in the congregations requiring them to live up to Bible principles but they themselves, to use the current phrase, refuse to "man up" to what is right before Jehovah! Sure, tell a young man to rat on a friend for Jehovah's sake but keep the secret sins of the Governing Body, both present and former, in secret!

  They truly are the Pharisees of the 21st century.
• 

  wasblind

  Question: If someone in the cong had a problem with drugs or alcohol

  and decided to get professional help without telling the Elders, and the Elders

  found out, would they be reproved or disfellowshipped if this was found out

  or what would happen if they went to the Elders first ? would they still be punished in some way ?

  if so ratting out a person only serves to help the rat, rather than help individual.