Keeping your nose in the POO (page 2)

tec

As the old saying goes, 'God helps those who help themselves'.

(not to nitpick, but I have no idea who came up with that saying... doesn't really follow the bible message, or even Christ's)

Okay, sorry, carry on :)

Tammy

Satanus

"Which is worse: living in a make-believe escape pod of imagination or facing the cold, hard facts of everyday life?"

The first 2 truths, in buddhism are:

1. Life means suffering.

2. The origin of suffering is attachment.

Detach, and you stop your suffering. Detach from your house, your car, your very life - hard to do.

S

sabastious

Detach, and you stop your suffering. Detach from your house, your car, your very life - hard to do.

I do not want to detach from my wife and kid.

So looks like it's suffering for me

-Sab

You are assuming that only those things found in the sensory spatial-temporal continuum can count as REAL. Some of our beliefs or experiences correspond to what is in that continuum and some do not. You are assuming that if something cannot be found in the spatiality/materiality of our three dimensional sensory world, it is a false belief or is not real. But...it's just your assumption.

Is cyberspace real? Afterall, any space that isn't real space (falling on that sensory spatial/materiality continuum) just doesn't count as real at all, does it?

HintOfLime

Is cyberspace real? Afterall, any space that isn't real space (falling on that sensory spatial/materiality continuum) just doesn't count as real at all, does it?

We can extend our senses via the use of indirect observation.. so your example fails.

We can accurately detect and measure activity on the internet. We can accurately detect and measure gamma radiation - even though we cannot personally sense it. We can detect activity at the level of sub-atomic particles by means of sophisticated analysis of energy output in a controlled particle collision. We are setting out on exploring the brain - detecting neural activity and what regions of the brain is related to what sort of experience.

When you can build a device that can detect and measure whatever yet-unknown force you'd like to propose as having an influence on us - I'm sure many will be interested in your findings.

Until then - it is merely speculation and appeals to ignorance.

- Lime

Hope4Others

You should consider the cold hard facts everyday you crawl out of bed, but that does not mean you have to

dwell on negitivity. Its dwelling on all the crap makes a person down. Focus on the positive and things just go

better.

journey-on

When you can build a device that can detect and measure whatever yet-unknown force you'd like to propose as having an influence on us
And there you have it! The key is resonance.
There are many people who have had deeply "spiritual" experiences, so while you are waiting for a tool to be invented to detect "other dimensional" phenomena, remember that all of mankind is still evolving. Evolution is imperceptible for thousands of years much less in one lifetime, but even now there are those that are multisensory (for lack of a better word). You CANNOT tell these people that they themselves are not the tool; and you cannot tell them that their experiences are fantastical or not real. They KNOW better. To categorize every person that is multisensory as living in a fantasy world, or worse, as mentally unstable is ridiculous.
Oh, and BTW, Terry, we are so bombarded by negative news that it makes it seem like our world is nothing but pain and misery, but, is that how it really is? If you think so, then YOU keep your nose in the poo. There's lots of wonderful things happening, discoveries being made, people building happy prosperous lives, but, of course, those things don't sell near as well as war, disease, murder, molestations, plane crashes, drunk driving accidents, serial killings, etc. When that's all you hear and read about, you tend to THINK that misery is the normal REALITY. Is it? Really?

Satanus

Our ideas of comfort and privacy are only 2 or 3 hundred yrs old. We humans can get used to anything, and think that it's the only way to live. It's in our group animal genes. Discontent w what we have is the norm, these days. It's fanned every day by tv commercials, billboards, movies, well, the media as a whole, really.

S

Markfromcali

The first 2 truths, in buddhism are:
1. Life means suffering.
2. The origin of suffering is attachment.
Detach, and you stop your suffering. Detach from your house, your car, your very life - hard to do.

It's because it's not something you "do," that's why they call it non-attachment. The principle of non-attachment really speaks to the nature of awareness, which does not grasp at or avert things. Trying to detach would be like the JW focus on outward behavior, which we know is really putting the cart before the horse and creates suffering in itself, whereas if the consciousness shifts then it comes naturally. Of course some forms of attachments are natural, such as various social ties but there is also artificial mind created attachment which can become very elaborate and powerful, as we know it may take the form of ones world view, even one that considers this principle if the idea of it is mistaken for the real thing. A functional smooth working mind would not hold detachment as a goal or some kind of ideal, it will direct the attention toward things for the simple purpose of working with it and move on when it is done, no more no less.

To get back to the topic, clearly the subjective experience of poopiness is not very functional if nothing else. Yes it may be a relatively more accurate view of things if you stay informed, but for most people the psyche can only bear so much. The fact that there is no distinction made between what's going on and the subjective exprience of how that sits with you shows the view is less than objective. An objective view of the news would have to take into consideration how that information is being conveyed, what that says about the authors view and if there is any slant, etc. as well as one's own perceptual filters and interpretations. It may require additional research to make sense of the info, but none of this will be considered if someone was just stuck in that experience of negativity.

HintOfLime

There are many people who have had deeply "spiritual" experiences, so while you are waiting for a tool to be invented to detect "other dimensional" phenomena, remember that all of mankind is still evolving.

Evolution requires selective pressure - it isn't a random thing. You don't go from one generation with 'no eyes' to 'with eyes' without millions of smaller steps. All of the 5 senses have dedicated, specialized nerve endings and structure to do what they do. Have you identified a set of nerve endings to justify this '6th sense'? What competitive advantage does the sense offer so that humans with this '6th sense' are more successful in competition and reproduction? (Many of the people I see on TV talking about their 'spiritual' or 'alien abduction' experiences distance themselves from regular society, which would become a hinderance to finding a mate and reproducing.)

Evolution is imperceptible for thousands of years much less in one lifetime, but even now there are those that are multisensory (for lack of a better word).

Isolate them, and see if their 'special senses' verify eachother's story. If one detects 'A' in place 'A'.. then another should detect the exact same thing in that same place, no?

There is a lot of talk, a lot of claims - but when it comes down to it nobody yet has been able to demonstrate such powers. The US Military spent what, 20 Million Dollars on research into remote viewing and other forms 'ESP' - and it all turned out to be crap.

Their are well know medical disorders that can cause false perceptions, hallucinations, and dilusions - not to mention drugs. These seem far more likely than the sudden development of a new sensory organ for which there isn't any evidence of reproductive advantage.

You CANNOT tell these people that they themselves are not the tool; and you cannot tell them that their experiences are fantastical or not real.

Oh, trust me, I can tell when someone is a tool. (Not saying you are.. it was just too fun to pass up.)

But if they can't verify one another - then how is it different from 2 people speaking nonsense? In every examined case thus far, there is no significant support for these people's claims of 'supernatural powers'. When given a test they can't cheat at - they fail.

They KNOW better. To categorize every person that is multisensory as living in a fantasy world, or worse, as mentally unstable is ridiculous.

Why? There are hundreds of disorders and conditions that are extremely common among humans:

"Mental disorders are common in the United States and internationally. An estimated 26.2 percent of Americans ages 18 and older — about one in four adults — suffer from a diagnosable mental disorder in a given year." (Kessler RC, Chiu WT, Demler O, Walters EE. Prevalence, severity, and comorbidity of twelve-month DSM-IV disorders in the National Comorbidity Survey Replication (NCS-R). Archives of General Psychiatry , 2005 Jun;62(6):617-27.)
"Even though mental disorders are widespread in the population, the main burden of illness is concentrated in a much smaller proportion — about 6 percent, or 1 in 17 — who suffer from a serious mental illness." (Same as above.)

- Lime

Keeping your nose in the POO

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