started a firestorm on facebook

by mimimimi 32 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Doubting Bro

  I had a CO once ask me whether I thought being attracted to the same sex was a choice or something you were born with. And, no he wasn't hitting on me, it came up in conversation somehow. I told him I wasn't sure but it seemed that some people were born with that inclination. He actually agreed and told me the WTS agreed as well? I've never seen a reference but this CO wasn't a young man and you would think if anyone would be saying it was a choice it would be him.

  Of course, he said that those folks had to sacrifice alot to be a JW and that Jehovah would "fix" them in the new system. He said it was acting on the impulse that was bad, not having it. He also compared it with an unmarried straight person. Acting on the impluse outside of marriage was wrong (in his eyes) whether it was gay or straight.

  Actually, I was impressed with his openness for a 70 y/o CO.
• 

  Scully

  DoubtingBro

  I had a CO once ask me whether I thought being attracted to the same sex was a choice or something you were born with. And, no he wasn't hitting on me, it came up in conversation somehow. I told him I wasn't sure but it seemed that some people were born with that inclination. He actually agreed and told me the WTS agreed as well? I've never seen a reference but this CO wasn't a young man and you would think if anyone would be saying it was a choice it would be him.

  Of course, he said that those folks had to sacrifice alot to be a JW and that Jehovah would "fix" them in the new system. He said it was acting on the impulse that was bad, not having it. He also compared it with an unmarried straight person. Acting on the impluse outside of marriage was wrong (in his eyes) whether it was gay or straight.

  Actually, I was impressed with his openness for a 70 y/o CO.

  This was actually a topic that came up when I first started thinking outside the JW brain cage.

  I'd seen a program on the science of sexual orientation - and it demonstrated a brain-based origin for same sex attraction, beginning in utero. Apparently disproportionate numbers of men born to women who conceived and carried their pregnancy during wartime (in war zones) were later found to be homosexual. The hypothesis was that being gay would prevent there being another generation born should the combat situation continue beyond the current generation: it was a form of population control.

  So I talked about this science program with JWs I knew. I asked them if someone believed they were born gay, yet believed The Truth™ and wanted to be a JW, and just kept their orientation to themselves and never acted on their sexual preference and remained celibate, would that be okay. Each and every JW I posed that to, believed that this individual believing they were born gay and wanting to be part of the Organization™ would be Leading a Double Life™, Living a Lie™, and would probably be destroyed at Armageddon™. They just couldn't wrap their head around the thought that it was absolutely no different for them to remain celibate than it would be for a heterosexual person to remain celibate. They believed that the "sin" was believing they were gay and having "those feelings and urges" for the same sex, not the act of having a sexual relationship with a same-sex partner. They used the "committing adultery in their heart" scripture to justify that position - and even though the scripture applied to heterosexual relationships, they felt that "committing sodomy in their heart" or "having gay sex in their heart" would be worse than "committing adultery in their heart".
• 

  Doubting Bro

  Scully - that's interesting. This particular CO went out of his way to tell people that acting on gay impluses was no greater of a sin than acting on hetro impluses. He used to live in an area with a large gay community and I wonder if that influenced his reasonability on the subject.
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  WontLeave

  I've never understood the double standard. The rules about homosexual behavior are usually right beside the rules about heterosexual behavior, but gays are much more vilified than adulterers or fornicators. Christians aren't allowed to be animals, but have to live according to Christian standards. Most psychiatrists agree that the majority of gays are born that way, while some are turned in that direction by a traumatic childhood. Either way, it's not the person's fault they are gay.

  I think the reason most people who are hateful toward homosexuals are because people just tend to be hateful and looking for any excuse to hate. Why do you think it's so easy to stir up entire demographics to hate someone who's DFed, a different color, a different religion, in a different political party, in a different financial situation, etc? Would the Inquisition, the Holocaust, the KKK, the Crusades, any war, any act of terrorism be possible if people weren't prone to hate and violence? These horrible atrocities are/were all committed by normal, everyday people who were given an excuse and an opportunity to act out their natural tendency toward wickedness.

  That having been said, the "gay pride" movement is annoying. Okay, it's not your fault you're gay; most rational people get that. But, no, it's not "normal", "natural", or positive in any way. Some people are born with mental disabilities and some others have accidents where they become brain damaged. Either way, the outcome is not something to brag about, have parades to celebrate, or demand other people embrace and want for their own children. Something either went wrong in the womb or during the formative years.

  Do you hate someone for being mentally challenged? No. Do you try to work with them and make their life as normal as possible? Yes. Do you wish for them to be made better someday, whether by God or science? Of course. Is their situation going to cause problems and occasional incidents that may be frustrating, awkward, or emotionally painful? Sure. Do you stare at them or harass them for being different? Absolutely not. But let's not swing so far in the other direction that it becomes ridiculous.
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  lesabre

  i'm a Ginny too!!! :)
• 

  oldlightnewshite

  It's good that you put this on your status. The reaction from your niece probably opened up their eyes to what JWs believe. Even though you probably had several people reply, you maybe had even more just read it with their mouths open. Even though many religions are softening their stance to sexuality, the general public maybe aren't aware of the JW view.

  Borg 0 Morality 1

  Result.
• 

  cognizant dissident

  I like the way WontLeave compares gay people to brain-damaged people. Actually they do have special events and parades for brain-damaged people, with prizes and everything. Ever hear of the special olympics?
• 

  Quando

  It amazes me how people are all of a sudden scientists! lol

  and just for the record, I know people are born gay and if you deny these feelings to yourself your not gay (Not happy)
• 

  ProdigalSon

  Yes, saying that homosexuality is a choice is a statement made out of total ignorance. If we think homosexuality is a choice, we would also have to ask ourselves, why are people born with Down's Syndrome or other afflictions? Did they choose that? While it may seem "obvious" to an ignorant person that boy always goes with girl because "that's the way we are designed" (ignorant thinking because the TRUTH is that a truly Divine creature is a hermaphrodite, having united the two polarities), there are other factors to consider. And as always, we need to look at the larger picture, specifically, that there is much much more to our existence than this present life. Reincarnation is the truth, and there is definitely such a thing as karma and karmic debt. Those Eastern religions didn't just make up those doctrines like Christians make up theirs. Jesus taught karma when he said "You reap what you sow." Jesus' disciples showed that karma was the accepted truth at the time when they asked him, "who sinned, that this man was born blind?" If someone doesn't get the full recompense for their actions within one lifetime, then this would make Jesus and every other spiritual teacher a liar, and there would be no justice whatsoever.

  We have all agreed to be born into certain circumstances in order to atone for past negative behavior, perhaps because we were Barbarians, or soldiers who raped the women of the enemy.... or maybe we were just prolifically promiscuous...in order to evolve spiritually and accomplish what we came here to do in this particular lifetime. That doesn't mean that being gay is wrong, or a curse, or some kind of punishment, it just means that it is a challenge that needs to be dealt with, and the challenge for everyone else is not to judge them but to love them the same as we love everyone else, just as God loves everyone equally. What really matters for a gay person is the same as what matters for a straight person: How do they treat their lovers? Are they honest in their dealings? Are they sincere in their love? Or are they out to put notches on their belt and inflate their ego?

  ~PS
• 

  Mad Sweeney

  This comment needs to be hit back with a question:

  you openly deny what it says to be the truth of the matter. Being gay is a personal choice and Science has not been able to prove otherwise.

  Where in the Bible does it say that? Show us the scripture or stfu.