ks10-E p70 - Elders told “NOT to involve themselves in what individuals do with regard to petty gambling solely for entertainment!”

by LUKEWARM 17 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  undercover

  An individual continuing in employment directly involved with gambling or employment making him a clear accomplice or promoter of gambling would be subject to judicial action, usually after being allowed time, perhaps up to six months, to make the needed adjustments.

  I've usually associated this with working for a casino. Seems like at one time a JW couldn't work in a casino, even if he was a janitor or foodservice worker. If that's the case, what about JWs who work as sales clerks at convenience stores and gas stations where lottery tickets are sold? Would this job be prohibited? And if it isnt', then why can't one work for a casino in a department not "directly involved with gambling", such as hotel staff or restaurant staff or valet?

  Greed-gambling, extortion: (I Cor. 5:10,11; 6:10; 1 Tim. 3:8; it-1 pp. 789, 1005-1006; w891/15 p. 22) Christians should avoid gambling in all its various forms, including lotteries. (Isa. 65:11; g02 7/22 pp. 4-8; w89 7/15 p. 30; g82 7/8 pp. 25-27; g8111/22 p. 27)

  Interesting. Four scriptural references but seven WT publication references.

  Here are the scriptural references:

  1 Cor. 5:10,11 - not [meaning] entirely with the fornicators of this world or the greedy persons and extortioners or idolaters. Otherwise, YOU would actually have to get out of the world. But now I am writing YOU to quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man

  1 Cor. 6:10 - nor thieves, nor greedy persons, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit God’s kingdom.

  1 Tim. 3:8 - Ministerial servants should likewise be serious, not double-tongued, not giving themselves to a lot of wine, not greedy of dishonest gain,

  Isa. 65:11 - “But YOU men are those leaving Jehovah, those forgetting my holy mountain, those setting in order a table for the god of Good Luck and those filling up mixed wine for the god of Destiny.

  Nothing in those scriptures condemns gambling or games of chances. At best the argument can be made that gambling is an unwise use of money that could be better put to use in furthering Kingdom interests or providing for your family. I could understand words of caution about not getting caught up in the greed factor of any pursuit involving money, including gambling - but to single out the act of gambling as equal to greed is not Biblical nor is it factual.

  The elders do well not to involve themselves in what individuals do with regard to petty gambling solely for entertainment. They may need to give counsel if this becomes a cause of stumbling for others or affects the spirituality of the individual or the congregation.-

  Translation: some folks in the legal and/or service department enjoy "fantasy football" and Super Bowl pools.

  That is an accurate translation. But the question remains - What constitutes "petty gambling"?

  $20 to join a fantasy football league may be petty to most people but not to the guy who is unemployed and having trouble feeding his kids. In turn, to the people who have the means, going to Vegas and setting a limit of $5000 (while getting comps) is not detrimental to their budget. It is part of their entertainment budget. 5K ain't petty to me, but it is to my boss. Who in Bethel, or in the local elder body is qualified to say what I or anyone else can or can not afford when gambling?

  On the surface it may seem "reasonable" to not harp on "petty gambling" but in the end it is a hypocritcal position when in the previous paragraphs it was proclaimed that "Christians should avoid gambling in all its various forms, including lotteries." Lottery tickets are a buck or two a piece. If a couple of bucks isn't petty, what is?
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  WTWizard

  I wonder how long this will last. The witlesses are expected to gamble their whole lives away on the hope that both the "Probably" and the "May" come up and they are concealed in Jehovah's anger. Yet, buying a stupid scratch-off ticket merits a judicial hearing--that hardly made sense.

  I do, however, advise gambling below your means if at all. It is easy to waste $100 or more that you cannot afford in hopes of getting your money back. Putting a limit of what you can afford to lose before you start gambling is a good idea, and stick with that limit. If you win money back, do not gamble that away in hopes of winning even more--or you have zero chance of getting and staying ahead. If, for instance, your limit is $50 and you win back $20 after spending your $50, you keep the $20 and spend $30 net on the evening. It is very tempting otherwise to spend your $50, and then reason that $55, $60, $65, and so on isn't that bad. Before long, you could be more than $1,000 in the hole.
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  rocketman

  Funny, when I was a jw, I would even buy a raffle ticket. And when I was an elder, I never picked up on what Blondie quoted from the old manual. I'm really upset now - I could have won a turkey.
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  antes8080

  in my area some of us do a poker night with 20 buy in most of the guys that go really dont care we see it as petty gambling we been doing it for years even two elders play so am sure they new about the regulations lol.... and a group of us are going to vegas next month i will gamble aroun 100.... couse you right WTWizard you could easily loose lots of money!!!
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  St George of England

  When my wife was a child (1950's) she used to play cards with her grandparents and they always played for halfpennies. She still remembers that with shame because she was gambling! I will have to print out this section of the elder's manual for her.

  George
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  booby

  *** w02 11/1 p. 31 Questions From Readers ***
  Some might reason that betting small amounts of money while playing a friendly card or board game with relatives or close friends is no more than innocent entertainment. True, someone who bets a small amount of money may not view himself as greedy, egotistical, competitive, or superstitious. Still, what effect could his gambling have on the ones he is gambling with? Many compulsive gamblers began by making petty bets ‘just for fun.' (Luke 16:10) A seemingly innocent diversion turned out to be something far more sinister in their case.

  This is the problem when writing up a new Talmud. You make a rule that some have a problem with exact interpretation or who try to circumvent and the only solution is to define in greater detail. And even then it remains open to some extent because it is impossible to cover every situation. I don't get the tone that some on this thread are getting and this is my point. How big does the Talmud become before no questions remain. when I read "If a business gives out prizes or prize money to winners of a contest or to potential customers for advertising, accepting the gift is an individual's decision to make" I don't get the notion that you can do anything that is "real gambling" and not get in trouble if it becomes known. Look at the references like the one above and I think it becomes clear. At the end of the day it is clear that the best thing to do before taking a chance is run to an elder and get his clarification.
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  kurtbethel

  Now wait just a minute! This religion offers again and again a mere "prospect" of living forever in paradise. That is the exact word they use in their literature, a prospect. Not a promise, like the Bible offers. Gamblers have a prospect of hitting a jackpot or winning at the tables. That is why I have told JWs that they have a casino religion. What a severe case of doublemindedness for them to offer a prospect of eternal life while condemning gambling for a prospect of winnings.
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  booby

  LOL at kurtbethel Isn't that the truth?