Soldiers of Jah

by cofty 214 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • AGuest
    AGuest
    No actually Moses did not have it. He was the one who ordered the massacre of tens of thousands of babies in my OP

    I have to say that if you are going by the written account, dear Cofty (peace to you!), which is accurate, at least as far as to the event itself, your opinion is inaccurate, unfortunately. First, not only did Moses not order any massacre, but (1) he pled on behalf of the Egyptians, (2) no Israelite lifted a hand against any Egyptian, and (3) there was no massacre, per se. What occurred was more like a plague, a "silent" death (versus a massacre that involves carnage and spilling of blood). No one was bodily harmed... and no blood was spilled, other than that of the lambs whose blood was used for the doorposts.

    What DID occur is that, after entreating Pharaoh many times to allow Israel leave to conduct a "revival" out in the wilderness... for which Pharaoh hemmed, hawed, questioned, gave in, then returned to his old ways... the Most Holy One of Israel simply let loose the Destroyer, the spirit of Death. The one whose is called "Abbadon/Apollyon." And that one simply went through the land and inhaled. Those households that were not "protected" by lamb's blood onthe doorpost suffered the loss of its firstborns... those of the household as well as of the livestock... by means of such firstborn ones' breath being taken. The firstborn, however, was not tens of thousands of babies. To the contrary, most were adults. The word "firstborn" doesn't mean the first baby... but the eldest of the household... including old ones. Tens of thousands died because tens of thousands of Egyptians were "firstborns"... regardless of their age... or sex.

    Once you know the truth, it will set you free.

    This is actually an inaccurate and dangerously misleading statement, dear ProdSon (peace to you!), as you have stated it here, unless you are referring to the One who IS the Truth, Christ, who MADE the statement, but did so as follows:

    “If YOU remain in my word, YOU are really my disciples, and YOU will know the truth, and the truth will set YOU free.” They replied to him: “We are Abraham’s offspring and never have we been slaves to anybody. How is it you say, ‘YOU will become free’?” [Jesus] answered them: “Most truly I say to YOU, Every doer of sin is a slave of sin. Moreover, the slave does not remain in the household forever; the son remains forever. Therefore if the Son sets YOU free, YOU will be actually free.” John 8:32-36

    "I am... the truth..." John 14:6

    You're not going to find it in the pages of any book. If you want to learn for yourself what was said or not said, what is true and what isn't, first get all the data together that you can find, apply logic, then meditate diligently, then apply some more logic....keep seeking, knocking and asking....find that little voice within, and trust your intuition.

    Or... one can simply go to... ask... listen to... and the put faith in the answer one receives from... Christ.

    Take a course in astral projection, learn to wake up in a dream, and

    I'm not sure either of those are necessary...

    go ask [Jesus] for yourself,

    YES!!!

    or whoever else you want to find up there.

    Ummm... I personally wouldn't recommend that as, while it can be done, it really can be quite dangerous for the one so asking...

    Paul did it on the road to Damascus, and in his "third heaven" excursion.

    Sorry, dear one, but that wasn't exactly what occurred with Paul (i.e., he didn't ask... but was addressed), and it wasn't Paul who visited the third heaven. That was the John that received the Revelation. Indeed, this "visit" is part of the Revelation (... "write what you saw...").

    Until we experience self-realization, we are merely projecting our opinions onto others, no matter how much "proof" we might have for our beliefs.

    I do agree with this statement, to a great degree... but will add, that until we come to know Christ (not know of, but know... starting with having personally met) so that one CAN experience "self-realization", which one does by having one's "self" REVEALED... by looking into the "mirror" that is Christ, the One who not only reflects God... but us, so that we can "see" ourselves... and our own "nakedness"...

    If Jesus really said "no one comes to the Father except through ME", and he really meant his individual self, then he condemned most of the world, all his teachings of Oneness are false and he was a liar.

    This statement is false as to my Lord, dear one, as he really did mean his individual self... through him. The Door. The Narrow Gate. True, one CAN climb up some other way/place... but he did mean himself. And it's easy to understand just what he meant if one understands the relationship between Joseph... and Pharaoh. For example, one hungering for grain during Egypt's great famine might find oneself at the doorstep of Pharaoh's palace... or one of Pharaoh's great grain houses. However, in order to get IN and/or have access to such grain... indeed, in order to even receive a measure for himself and/or his household... such one had to go THROUGH Joseph. Not literally through Joseph's body... but through Joseph as the one in charge, the one with authority, the one who DISPENSED such grain. Individually. Even though the grain... and storehouses... belonged to Pharaoh. Because Pharaoh himself PUT Joseph in charge, GAVE him that authority, and sent a decree out into the land that if someone wanted something from HIM (Pharaoh), it was to... and through... Joseph that such one had to go.

    It is the same here: if you want to enter into the house of God, into the dwelling place of the Most Holy [One of Israel]... indeed, into the Most Holy itself... and before the face of the Most Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies... you must enter THROUGH... the Door, Gate... Curtain... that is the Holy [One of Israel], His Son and Christ, the Holy Spirit... JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH.

    I don't think [Jesus] ever lied. But yes the scribes did.

    He didn't lie... and they did. Some will argue this, but the truth is that a lie is something born of deceit... and the desire to deceive... for a selfish and harmful purpose (which is what the scribes did and so their works were condemned, and why the Adversary is referred to as "the father of the lie"). On the other hand, one can say something to one but something else to another (which is what Abraham did when stating Sarai was his sister)... or say one thing and do another (which is what my Lord did when telling his disciples he was not going up to the temple, but discreetly did so after they left him)... if it is for a good purpose, say, saving a life. For an unselfish... and loving... purpose. Why is this okay? Because such acts would be out of love... and there is no law against love. Love... is the Law's fulfillment.

    If he meant the Christ energy that he incarnated within himself, which we all have inside of us with the potential to be awakened, then every religion and every culture has its Christ, its savior energy which comes into their temple bodies through the SUN of God, and that is the only way any of it makes sense.

    Ahhhh, my Lord has helped me to see what you mean, yes. And, ummmm... no. Well, not quite. The word of my Lord to me on this matter is that the "Christ energy" you are referring to is the "light." That "light", however, is not incarnate within my Lord: he IS that light... which has the POTENTIAL to be in all of us, true... but only if we are "clean"... on the inside. If we have cleansed the inside of the "cup" that is the vessel/body... temple. Not the literal organs... but the spiritual organs: starting with the "heart."

    He also stated that while indeed every religion and every culture ATTEMPTS to capture that "light"... they all fall short. Because they are not attempting to capture HIM... but some other "source" of light (originating in their own beliefs... including about him but are not accurate because they are not FROM him... or that of their religions and/or cultures... or even other spirits).

    But he is the only TRUE Light... and unless and until they take HIM into their bodies/vessels/temples... their light is lacking. Indeed, it is dark. And for this reason they know all manner of quasi-, pseudo-, and other partial truths... but do not know HIM... THE Truth. The SON of God... who is the True Light... or "Sun" of God.

    They don't know HIM... because he does not reside IN them. He does not so reside... because either (1) their temples are not clean inside (and neither the Most Holy nor the Holy One can reside in an unclean temple); and/or (2) they do not take him into their temples... by consuming him... literally... as their "food" and "drink". They do not live... by means of him... the Word... "that comes forth from God."

    You have to build a solar body and this is the secret teaching of Christianity and every other major religion.

    I understand what you're saying... as it relates to your ideas, above... but not sure how you propose one can "build" such a body (if indeed one can). With regard to Christ, however, one "builds" such a body starting first... with cleansing the inside. Which involved removing all of the "dead mens' bones" that are "buried" there.

    We are all connected, that's the key to understanding the Bible. No one is an entity unto himself, disconnected from the rest. That's the big illusion. That's why my favorite chapter in the whole Bible is John 17.

    This is absolutely true of the Body of Christ, so that when one members rejoices all of the other members rejoice... and when one members feels pain/mourns, the entire Body feels pain/mourns. However, we are not "all" members of the Body of Christ. That Body is limited to those who are the "children" of God... by means of a fertilization and adoption by holy spirit. They do not include, then, those who manifest themselves as the "children" of the Devil... which manifestation is evidenced by their hatred, particularly of their "brother."

    Without the Lord God himself telling us which parts are false and which parts ain't, it's just shooting in the dark to determine it.

    The Most Holy One of Israel, whose name is JAH... of Armies... does tell us Himself: by means of His Word... the One He told Israel to listen to, His Son and Christ, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH, who is the Holy One of Israel and Holy Spirit. That One is alive... and speaks... and so all one has to do is ask him. As the Holy Spirit of God, HE can and WILL lead whoever puts faith in his word... into ALL truth. Including about what is written... including in the Bible.

    Peace to you all!

    A slave of Christ,

    SA

  • cofty
    cofty
    I have to say that if you are going by the written account, dear Cofty (peace to you!), which is accurate, at least as far as to the event itself, your opinion is inaccurate, unfortunately. First, not only did Moses not order any massacre, but (1) he pled on behalf of the Egyptians,

    AGuest - unfortunately you have changed my original question. You raised the subject of Egypt not me. If you go back and read my OP you will see that I referred to Moses ordering the cold-blooded massacre of tens of thousands of unarmed Midianite women and children.

    Numbers 31:14 -Moses was angry with the officers of the army—the commanders of thousands and commanders of hundreds—who returned from the battle. 15 "Have you allowed all the women to live?" he asked them. 16 "They were the ones who followed Balaam's advice and were the means of turning the Israelites away from the LORD in what happened at Peor, so that a plague struck the LORD's people. 17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

    You cannot have an inerrant bible and a good god - your choice, one or neither?

  • AGuest
    AGuest
    unfortunately you have changed my original question. You raised the subject of Egypt not me.

    You are absolutely correct, dear Cofty (peace to you!), and I sincerely apologize. There was so much here somehow I got that the subject was on the Passover events (maybe confused with another thread). Please do note, however, that the account also indicates that it was not Moses who gave the command to "smite" the Midianites, but only carried it out by directing Israel to act. I realize that is small comfort for what you may believe to be an unrighteous act, but I am not sure it was [unrighteous]: Balak and the other kings of Midian were plotting to wipe out Israel. Perhaps the Most Holy One of Israel knew that all of the males would have sought to annhilate Israel... sooner or late. Would have been raised with this very thing in mind... and so there would be no peace for Israel in the land if they remained. Not much different from what some teach their young today. None of us know the future as to these things, so none can say who WILL grow up to be a killer/terrorist... or who won't.

    I do think, however, that if preventing such a (future threat) was the goal at the time, then removing the boys... and women who had relations (and thus, might be pregnant) would make sense... in the sense of such things. Yes, it turns MY stomach, but I know there are all kinds of folks who've lost loved ones through terrorist acts (or war, or retaliation for terrorist acts, etc.) who curse the day the one who took their loved one's life was born. Would do anything if they could go back in time and prevent that person from every being born. Perhaps the Most Holy One [of Israel] was preventing that very thing. I admit, I do not know because I heard nothing when I asked about it. That doesn't mean that I won't, though, and I will share what I do hear, if anything.

    But I personally would have mourned the loss of life on either side... just as I mourn those who attack Israel... as well as those who are attacked BY Israel... today... because they are all brothers - all having originated from Abraham - and thus knowing... but utterly failing to serve... the same God... the God of Abraham... JAH of Armies. He, who both Isaac (Israel), Abraham's son by Sarah... AND Midian, Abraham's son by Keturah after Sarah's death, knew.

    And both eventually turned away: Midian... and eventually, Isaac (Israel).

    I would have found some comfort, however, in the knowledge that while the Midianites could not return life to Israel, the Most Holy One [of Israel], JAH of Armies, can return life to the Midianites.

    Again, my apologies for the confusion!

    A slave of Christ,

    SA

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento
    We don't actually know that since we don't know ANYTHING other than what's in the bible, no personal conversations, not many letters. Thay MAY have been the case.

    Well, what we have in the NT and even in the OT, SEEMS to be direct at specific people hebrews) and groups ( chruchs) and individuals ( Timothy for example), there is no indication tha the writers were aiming to prove anything or to write for the "ages".

    Just as we are doing right now.

    Imagine someone getting a hold of this conversation in 4010 AD ! LOL !

  • notverylikely
    notverylikely

    there is no indication tha the writers were aiming to prove anything or to write for the "ages".

    There is a really interesting theory documentary about the stories of David and how earlir stories were likely re-written as tales honoring him and exaggerated and are tales of political intrigue designed the throw the blame off of david for the death of his enemies by specifically saying it was done by others. Like, how there are a few places where they slip up and say someone ELSE killed goliath, although there is speculation that it was just the "earlier" names of people. Either way, it show that it was re-written and likely for a pupose :)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goliath#Elhanan_and_Goliath

    Imagine someone getting a hold of this conversation in 4010 AD ! LOL !

    They will marvel at how two ancients could be so wise, witty handsome and wonderful.

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento
    They will marvel at how two ancients could be so wise, witty handsome and wonderful.

    And they shall bask in our radiance !!

  • notverylikely
    notverylikely

    And they shall bask in our radiance !!

    This is my response. Link is for adults only.

    http://www.theonion.com/articles/bereaved-come-bathe-in-the-healing-light-of-my-coc,10806/

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento

    ROTFLMAO !

    That is some rooster that guy has there !

  • cofty
    cofty

    In his blog essay Is Yahweh a Moral Monster?: The New Atheists and Old Testament Ethics, Dr Paul Copan tries to argue that genocide was justified by the need to wipe out the idolatry of the Canaanites.

    Let me add a few more thoughts about warfare here. First, Israel would not have been justified to attack the Canaanites without Yahweh's explicit command. Yahweh issued his command in light of a morally-sufficient reason-the incorrigible wickedness of Canaanite culture. Second, the language of Deuteronomy 7:2-5 assumes that, despite Yahweh's command to bring punishment to the Canaanites, they would not be obliterated-hence the warnings not to make political alliances or intermarry with them. We see from this passage too that wiping out Canaanite religion was far more significant than wiping out the Canaanites themselves.

    I enjoyed reading John Loftus' response to Copan in which he points out the logical consequences of his attempted apology.

    So, if jidahist Muslims kill millions of Americans in order to wipe out our supposedly corrupt religion, then I suppose that would be morally acceptable by Dr. Copan’s logic. It all depends on whether you accept the faith claim that Allah is the true God.

    We must also recall that all the supposed crimes and wickedness of the Canaanite is being narrated by their enemies, the biblical authors. Over and over, we see Dr. Copan applying words such as “morally decadent,” “wicked,” to Canaanites because he is accepting the judgments of biblical authors. In any case, Dr. Copan’s procedure would be analogous to using only the pronouncements of Osama bin Laden to judge American culture......

    In any event, for Dr. Copan, “idolatry” allows Israelites the right to kill women and children as long as the higher goal of wiping out idolatry is met. Of course, his view of idolatry is what counts. It really amounts to this: “Genocide is OK when my religion does it, but genocide is not OK if your religion does it.”

    But, we could just easily reverse this and say that, from the viewpoint of a some mono-Baal worshipper, the worship of Yahweh is idolatry. That should give mono-Baalists the right to kill Yahweh worshippers if the higher goal is wiping out Yahweh worship.

    Moreover, we know that, even according to biblical materials, idolatry was not wiped out. Indeed, after all of the genocide carried out by Joshua and his successors, we still find idolatry being lamented in Jeremiah and other later prophets. Yahweh ends up killing women and children in vain. Yahweh apparently lacks the foresight to see that genocide will not work.

    So god is left not only in the position of a cruel tyrant but also of an incompetent one.

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento
    Yahweh apparently lacks the foresight to see that genocide will not work.

    John makes a cruical point that many bible innerrants and literalist seem to not get, IT DIDN'T WORK, so why would God that KNOWS it wouldn't work, have told them to do just that?

    In the long run, genocide or attempted genocide on the part of one group over another doesn't work because you never get all of them and what it creates IN the people trying to kill a whole other group of people is a contempt for ALL life that shoots them in the foot eventually.

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