These guys crash a Kingdom Hall on Memorial, video included (page 17)

Ninjamaskinen

My intent on coming here isn't to be disruptive. I will be the devil's advocate if I smell hypocrisy though.

Simon

I do however question the motives of ex jdubs who vehemently condemn such a thing.

That is fair - we question the motives of those who actually do such things.

We have attempted put some reasoned comments as to why we question the behavior though. You have simply resorted to insults instead of trying to reason or explain your position.

It's not about "winning". It's about having a discussion and making your views clear and sharing your opinion. It's difficult to consider people's views when they are poorly or aggressively presented. Kind of ironic - that is the objection most people have to the original action.

Ninjamaskinen

I appreciated the type of response you just gave me. I could equally argue that others here simply resorted to insult tactics.

Simon

I do however question the motives of ex jdubs who vehemently condemn such a thing

To try and explain why I think your reasoning is wrong. What would happen if someone did "more"?

What if someone went into the KH and screamed? Maybe at a kid and made them cry? Punched someone - an elder perhaps? What if they pulled a knife and stabbed a sister .. or burst in with a gun and shot people?

Where is the line? What is the limit?

If someone goes slightly too far does it only then suddenly turn into condemnation?

That seems to be a very strange place to be where a slight change alters things completely.

I think it's a more tenable place to argue that the approach and mindset is wrong. If we want to take the moral high ground and condemn the WTS for what it does wrong then we can't simply mirror their prejudices and blanket condemnation.

Everyone who leaves the WTS isn't "good" just as everyone who stays in it isn't "bad". Some good people leave, some bad people leave, some are kicked out. We actually campaign for them to kick them out and complain if they don't. Not everyone who stays in is bad or evil, they are just waiting to wake up.

Neo didn't go round shooting all the sleeping people in The Matrix, they tried to wake people up and fight the real enemy, the Agent Smith's. We need to stop imagining that every JW in every congregation is our enemy.

Simon

I appreciated the type of response you just gave me. I could equally argue that others here simply resorted to insult tactics.

It's an emotive topic. Anything todo with the WTS can always stir up a lot of memories.

We just need to remember who the real enemy is ... the people's front of Judea! (boom tish).

Seriously, it's not worth falling out. We should be able to disagree about things without being disagreeable.

Ninjamaskinen

Dude, We aren't living in a movie. That is not a blueprint for reality. It is a metaphor. What I saw in the mem protest vid did not come close to the knife wielding scenarios you described. Please see the difference here?

Ninjamaskinen

Ah goodnight. It was nice getting the core with you.

Simon

I was trying to get across that there is an escalation. The real problem is not what we do, it's with the initial premise that they are the enemy and it is right and fair to attack them in their place of worship.

The issue of freedom and religious tolerance is very nuanced. I posted my views about it here which may explain where I'm coming from:

Freedom, Free speech, Censorship, Religion and Tight Pants

Hey, in a perfect world I would have no religion or religious on the planet. We don't yet live in that world but I'm pragmatic. I think there are freedoms and protections that we need to give others in order to have a better world.

whathehadas

Real talk: This be a civilized apostate talk is not how everyone will be upon leaving the WT. The hurt caused by that cult may be too strong for some to be non aggressive. It's like the recent problem in Ferguson. You have people who been mistreated and abuse for so long, that they react violently when a opportunity presents itself to release their frustration. Trying to get ALL EXJW to act a certain way is a waste of time in my opinion. That memorial crash could not have been recorded and we would have never known nothing about it, unless someone knew of it and informed this forum.

pbrow

Simon...

i am not wanting to turn this into a circle jerk but your post on Freedom, Free Speech... was very good. I cannot speak for ninja but I do not think defending the right of these kids to do what they did should imply agreement with what they did. All sorts of assumptions were made about my cranial activity because I/we chose to defend the rights of those kids to go into a public service, make their statement and then leave within minutes.

Could it have escalated? Sure it could have but it did not. We can only comment on what we saw. They spoke up and left. I at least agree with most of the posters that it is highly unlikely that anything they said was helpful. If one person in that hall googled the name and had a seed of doubt planted than I say it was worth it. If they took out a knife and carved that guys facebook page into the forehead of an infant than I would be the first to stand up and say their actions were egregious, I do have some standards. But again, that did not happen.

pbrow

These guys crash a Kingdom Hall on Memorial, video included

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