What made you start questioning: people or doctrine? (page 4)

cheerios

*edit: oops .. you should all question my posting skills ... as clearly i cannot post the right post on the right topic ...

/hides

serein

it was facing death that did it for me

needing a blood transfusion and them expecting me to die and leave my twin babys that id just given birth to

then i questioned everything else

id been missrable anyways but dint start to fade till the blood issuse hit me

As I entered my teen years, things just didn't add up for me. I didn't agree with their interpretation of scripture but the one thing that hit me hard was being told I had to subject/subjugate myself to my husband. This wasn't in line with who I was as a person or my life plans and I also saw first-hand how it wasn't working with my parents.

sub·ject - adj. : Being in a position or in circumstances that place one under the power or authority of another

subjugate - verb (used with object), -gat-ed, -gat-ing:

1 . to bring under complete control of subjection; conquer; master.

2 . to make submissive or subservient; enslave.

jookbeard

doctrine first and full most, the "God destroying all non Dubs at The Big A" and leaving a world of these neurotic/wacko people never sat with me, the blood issue never sat well either, being able to read Franz' CoC and ISoCF and Carl Olaf Jonson also Pentons Apocalypse Delayed is an often underrated yet fascinating book, my fate was sealed in a matter of months.

coffee_black

This is a question that is asked often here. For me, many issues were raised over a long time. Having been raised a JW, it was all I knew... but I reached a point where I couldn't ignore these issues. I have posted the following a couple of times here...it kind of summarizes my journey out.


For a number of years, I had concerns. Something just didn’t feel right. I couldn’t put my finger on it, but like any good JW, I tried to ignore the red flags that arose over time. There were many issues, but I’ll only touch on a just a couple because this will get very long if I try to include everything from a span of many years. 1: My dad died in 1978 of kidney failure. During his lengthy illness the subject of kidney transplant arose. My parents sought the advice of the society, and found that, according to the society, organ transplantation was “against Jehovah’s law”, and that it amounted to cannibalism. My dad did not have a transplant as a direct result of this reasoning. He remained on dialysis (which was not enough in his case) until his death. Two years later, the society changed their policy, and it became a matter of conscience as to whether or not to have a transplant. I cannot tell you the emotion I felt when reading the “questions from the readers” that was the vehicle for the policy change. Now, most JWs will say that …”well, he was faithful and he’ll be back in the new system.” The question is “who was he faithful to?” It wasn’t Jehovah that demanded that he abstain from a transplant. His death did not result from being faithful to Jehovah…and faithfulness to the instruction of an organization is not the basis by which one gains salvation. Further, my dad was 68 years old when he died, a relatively young man. No one can replace the years he lost… I have 2 children who would have loved to have had a grandfather. He would have enriched their lives immensely. Now, who claims responsibility for this? Was it Jehovah who made the mistake? No….Jehovah does not make mistakes. The society went “beyond what is written” with terrible consequences, consequences that they do not take responsibility for…or even apologize for. At that point, I was still very much “in” the organization, and I tried very hard to avoid thinking about it. 2: When my son was about 7 years old, one of his friends from the congregation, an elder’s son came for a visit. They were outside playing when a little boy from the neighborhood wanted to join them. The elder’s son started screaming at the little boy telling him that Jehovah hated him….that he wasn’t one of Jehovah’s witnesses and that he was going to die at Armageddon. I heard the commotion and went outside to see the little boy in tears and my son trying to comfort him. I called the elder and asked him to come and get his son. Where does that kind of hatred come from? Any religion that teaches a child to hate is not only unchristian, it’s dangerous. Still in…trying to rationalize this as an isolated incident… 3: When my daughter was 13, she was very observant, wise beyond her years. She saw things going on in the congregation that she knew were wrong. She asked me on several occasions “Where is the love….isn’t that supposed to be the identifying mark of the true religion? Well, where is it?” I had no answer for her because she was right. It wasn’t there. It wasn’t just one congregation either. We were in several in Florida. I have attended congregations from MA to CA to Fl. The most important identifying mark… and it was virtually absent…. Still in, still trying to make excuses…. Many many more issues arose over time, and I continued to push them to the back of my mind. It got awfully crowded back there….and finally after my divorce in 1990 I decided to assess my life, and examine all that I believed. It was a turning point for me. As a JW I had told countless people to examine their religion. I had never taken my own advice. I decided to do so. If it really was the truth, I would apply myself “whole-souled” If it wasn’t, it was time I knew. It was Fall, 1990. I was 38 years old. I have an extensive library of JW publications that goes back to the turn of the 20 th century. I started at the beginning, and read continuously. It took nearly 2 years, and it broke my heart. The society claims that they were chosen to represent Jehovah in 1918-1919 (depending on which publication you reference.) They claim that they were chosen based on the fact that they, and they alone were teaching Bible truths. If they were truly chosen on that basis, why is it that the teachings of today have little if any resemblance to what they taught then? I know what they taught then, because I have read it from the original publications. Not the same teachings at all….not by any stretch of the imagination. The first really major books published by the society was the series “Studies in the Scriptures” The final volume was published in 1917, and was the most recent publication at the supposed time of their being chosen. I think every JW should have that book as required reading. It is filled with the craziest stuff I have ever read. And to add insult to injury, on the cover of this book (and all of the Studies in the Scriptures) is the symbol of the Egyptian sun God, Ra. Now I ask you, in examining the religions of the world, do you really think that Jehovah would choose a group that has the symbol of another god on the cover of their main teaching tool? And just what is it doing there to begin with? It got worse the more I read. Changing teachings…false prophecies… 1874…1914, 1918, 1925…on and on. The original calculation to get to the year 1914 was taken from the measurements of the “Great Pyramid of Giza” from something called the “Pyramid inch”….first written about by Charles Piazzi Smythe…a mystic. The “Ancient worthies” men like Abraham, Isaac & Jacob were supposed to be resurrected in 1925, and Judge Rutherford even had a mansion built for them, and deeded to them. It’s in San Diego, and it was sold in the early 40s after that prophecy failed. Did you know that Adam was the first Pharaoh…and he’s buried in the sphinx? Yup and Jehovah resides in the Pleadies…. On and on. No jw today believes any of this stuff, no thinking person would…but it’s the substance by which they were supposedly chosen by God. Ah, but you will say…we have new light!!! Look at Proverbs 4:18!! Please do, but this time read the whole chapter. This scripture does not teach “new light”. It is the story of a father teaching his son the best way to live his life… To sum it up: If you live a righteous life, you live an enlightened life. If you live a wicked life, you live in darkness. It has nothing to do with justifying changing teachings. Jehovah doesn’t change. Truth doesn’t change. This doesn’t even begin to scratch the surface. It is truly a mess. There is literally nothing to trust! Ah, but they are imperfect men, you say. They’ve made mistakes that’s all. Ok, then why not judge all religions by the same standard.? They are also made up of imperfect men. The society condemns all other religions for doing things that they themselves are guilty of. Why a double standard? I t would have been easier to ignore the evidence and stay. ..to bury my head and try to ignore the facts. It was all I ever knew…ever believed…and it crumbled before my eyes. My consciennce won’t allow me to remain part of that organization. Live up to their standards? No, it’s the other way around. They do not live up to my standards. And they definitely do not live up to Jehovah’s standards. Faithful and Discreet Slave? There is nothing faithful nor discreet about their record. They are not who they claim to be. Their history confirms this without a doubt. Coffee

For a number of years, I had concerns. Something just didn’t feel right. I couldn’t put my finger on it, but like any good JW, I tried to ignore the red flags that arose over time. There were many issues, but I’ll only touch on a just a couple because this will get very long if I try to include everything from a span of many years.

1: My dad died in 1978 of kidney failure. During his lengthy illness the subject of kidney transplant arose. My parents sought the advice of the society, and found that, according to the society, organ transplantation was “against Jehovah’s law”, and that it amounted to cannibalism. My dad did not have a transplant as a direct result of this reasoning. He remained on dialysis (which was not enough in his case) until his death. Two years later, the society changed their policy, and it became a matter of conscience as to whether or not to have a transplant.

I cannot tell you the emotion I felt when reading the “questions from the readers” that was the vehicle for the policy change. Now, most JWs will say that …”well, he was faithful and he’ll be back in the new system.” The question is “who was he faithful to?” It wasn’t Jehovah that demanded that he abstain from a transplant. His death did not result from being faithful to Jehovah…and faithfulness to the instruction of an organization is not the basis by which one gains salvation. Further, my dad was 68 years old when he died, a relatively young man. No one can replace the years he lost… I have 2 children who would have loved to have had a grandfather. He would have enriched their lives immensely. Now, who claims responsibility for this? Was it Jehovah who made the mistake? No….Jehovah does not make mistakes. The society went “beyond what is written” with terrible consequences, consequences that they do not take responsibility for…or even apologize for.

At that point, I was still very much “in” the organization, and I tried very hard to avoid thinking about it.

2: When my son was about 7 years old, one of his friends from the congregation, an elder’s son came for a visit. They were outside playing when a little boy from the neighborhood wanted to join them. The elder’s son started screaming at the little boy telling him that Jehovah hated him….that he wasn’t one of Jehovah’s witnesses and that he was going to die at Armageddon. I heard the commotion and went outside to see the little boy in tears and my son trying to comfort him. I called the elder and asked him to come and get his son. Where does that kind of hatred come from? Any religion that teaches a child to hate is not only unchristian, it’s dangerous.

Still in…trying to rationalize this as an isolated incident…

3: When my daughter was 13, she was very observant, wise beyond her years. She saw things going on in the congregation that she knew were wrong. She asked me on several occasions “Where is the love….isn’t that supposed to be the identifying mark of the true religion? Well, where is it?” I had no answer for her because she was right. It wasn’t there. It wasn’t just one congregation either. We were in several in Florida. I have attended congregations from MA to CA to Fl. The most important identifying mark… and it was virtually absent….

Still in, still trying to make excuses….

Many many more issues arose over time, and I continued to push them to the back of my mind. It got awfully crowded back there….and finally after my divorce in 1990 I decided to assess my life, and examine all that I believed. It was a turning point for me.

As a JW I had told countless people to examine their religion. I had never taken my own advice. I decided to do so. If it really was the truth, I would apply myself “whole-souled” If it wasn’t, it was time I knew. It was Fall, 1990. I was 38 years old.

I have an extensive library of JW publications that goes back to the turn of the 20 th century. I started at the beginning, and read continuously. It took nearly 2 years, and it broke my heart.

The society claims that they were chosen to represent Jehovah in 1918-1919 (depending on which publication you reference.) They claim that they were chosen based on the fact that they, and they alone were teaching Bible truths. If they were truly chosen on that basis, why is it that the teachings of today have little if any resemblance to what they taught then? I know what they taught then, because I have read it from the original publications. Not the same teachings at all….not by any stretch of the imagination.

The first really major books published by the society was the series “Studies in the Scriptures” The final volume was published in 1917, and was the most recent publication at the supposed time of their being chosen. I think every JW should have that book as required reading. It is filled with the craziest stuff I have ever read. And to add insult to injury, on the cover of this book (and all of the Studies in the Scriptures) is the symbol of the Egyptian sun God, Ra. Now I ask you, in examining the religions of the world, do you really think that Jehovah would choose a group that has the symbol of another god on the cover of their main teaching tool? And just what is it doing there to begin with?

It got worse the more I read. Changing teachings…false prophecies… 1874…1914, 1918, 1925…on and on. The original calculation to get to the year 1914 was taken from the measurements of the “Great Pyramid of Giza” from something called the “Pyramid inch”….first written about by Charles Piazzi Smythe…a mystic. The “Ancient worthies” men like Abraham, Isaac & Jacob were supposed to be resurrected in 1925, and Judge Rutherford even had a mansion built for them, and deeded to them. It’s in San Diego, and it was sold in the early 40s after that prophecy failed. Did you know that Adam was the first Pharaoh…and he’s buried in the sphinx? Yup and Jehovah resides in the Pleadies…. On and on. No jw today believes any of this stuff, no thinking person would…but it’s the substance by which they were supposedly chosen by God.

Ah, but you will say…we have new light!!! Look at Proverbs 4:18!! Please do, but this time read the whole chapter. This scripture does not teach “new light”. It is the story of a father teaching his son the best way to live his life… To sum it up: If you live a righteous life, you live an enlightened life. If you live a wicked life, you live in darkness. It has nothing to do with justifying changing teachings. Jehovah doesn’t change. Truth doesn’t change.

This doesn’t even begin to scratch the surface. It is truly a mess. There is literally nothing to trust!

Ah, but they are imperfect men, you say. They’ve made mistakes that’s all. Ok, then why not judge all religions by the same standard.? They are also made up of imperfect men. The society condemns all other religions for doing things that they themselves are guilty of. Why a double standard?

I t would have been easier to ignore the evidence and stay. ..to bury my head and try to ignore the facts. It was all I ever knew…ever believed…and it crumbled before my eyes. My consciennce won’t allow me to remain part of that organization. Live up to their standards? No, it’s the other way around. They do not live up to my standards. And they definitely do not live up to Jehovah’s standards. Faithful and Discreet Slave? There is nothing faithful nor discreet about their record. They are not who they claim to be. Their history confirms this without a doubt.

Coffee

onemore

In college (my father is not a JW and I HAD to go or else. Boy…I’m so glad for my worldly father! LOL …more on that on another post).

I was taking a history course on Western Civilization; the text book had a time table which dated the fall of Jerusalem at 587 b.c as opposed to 607. That was the bigining of the end, but what put the final nail in the coffin were the pharisaical attitudes, the lack of genuine love, the hypocrisy; and that I felt that I was intellectually and spiritually starving, that no matter how hard I tried, I was not feelin’ the “Truff”.

Oh…and that I was all ready reading “apostate” material and seriously considering DAing myself when I was appointed as an elder. Holy Spirit at work! You bet... but to get me out.

leavingwt

What made you start questioning?

Two things: (1) The WT way of life didn't bring me happiness and (2) the 'No Blood' doctrine, when my son almost needed red blood cells.

CuriousButterfly

1. The way I see some elders treat the congregation. I myself was not the lightening rod but I have heard of the stories and how they ruined people's lives.

2. I was never supposed to graduate kindergarten, the end was coming. Well the WTS is over 30 years late.

3. The WTS major doctrine of the "generation passing" and changing their mind made me question.

3. Not having the opportunity to go to college. Still bothers me to this day.

5. Shunning of df'd or da ones. They were your family or good friends and after an announcement is made completely cut them off. Is that showing love?

I have more but those are my top reasons why I have doubts and question.

LouBelle

I felt empty, and wanted to know why since I was supposed to have the truth and all the answers. Wanted to know if that was as good as my life was going to get.

Ding

Black Coffee,

Thanks for sharing your story.

Your father's death over the transplant issue just two years before the "new light" that would have saved his life highlights the fact that real people's lives are affected (and sometimes lost) because of these crazy doctrines devised by the GB. The callous way in which these tragedies are viewed by the Society ("they'll be resurrected soon anyway") shows how much of a cult this religion is.

Also, how many people do you think would have become JWs if they had known about all the false prophecies and stupid stuff in books like The Finished Mystery if we had seen them BEFORE they made the decision to get baptized?

What made you start questioning: people or doctrine?