Is the Soul Immortal...Biblically Speaking?

by Vanderhoven7 57 Replies latest jw friends

  • King Solomon
    King Solomon

    Kepler said:

    A case for an immortal soul can be posited starting with Genesis chapter one. If an invisible God fashions man and woman in the image of himself (Gen 1:27), then a definition of what the soul is would depend on whether we define God as a universal wind or breath or something even more fundamental.

    That assumption is highly questionable, for ohhh so many reasons.

    The reason for mentioning man being "made in the God's image" is actually the opposite as it suggests: YHWH is written in a manner to allow mortals to think of YHWH with man-like (anthropomorphic) qualities. At the time, the co-existent dieties were often inanimate (Sun god Ra), or animals; this was unlike the Greek pantheon, which also were God's made in man's image.

    YHWH being man-like (mirror image) allows Genesis to have Him walking thru the Garden, hearing, seeing, looking, i.e. possessing similar personality traits and emotions as a man. In early Genesis, YHWH is depicted with humanlike foibles and short-comings, which become increasingly inconsistent as the OT unfolds; YHWH assumes those famous legendary properties (omniscience, omnipotence, immutable, etc), unfortunately breaking continuity with prior depictions (eg God shows regret twice in the Flood: that's not consistent with being omniscient).

    Other reason, of course, is that God supposedly isn't confined to mortal form: he's supposedly purely existant, being in spirit form. Hence, all comparisons are off....

    Oh, this:

    He replied, "Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in Paradise."

    Ahhh, the problems with recording God's message in a language without punctuation marks!

    That scripture is famous for the ongoing debate about where the comma belongs, since it's anyone's guess.... Is it what you wrote above, or this:

    He replied, "Truly I tell you today, you will be with me in Paradise."

    Note how the meaning changed, simply by a translator's arbitrary decision to move the comma?

    If it is as simple as residency in a brain, then perhaps "I" could be easily transferred to the computer - if not this year then maybe next.

    Congratulations! You know something that so-called "Divinely-Inspired" ancient Hebrews and Early Christians didn't know: people think with their brain, not their heart.

    Ancient Hebrews actually believed the organs of cognition in men were found in the TORSO, NOT the head. So whenever YWHW is quoted referring to "evil thoughts in the hearts of men", that is no figure of speech: that's exactly what ancient men believed in 500 BC (the role of the brain wasn't elucidated and became common knowledge until 100's of years AFTER the OT was complete. In fact, even Jesus referred to thoughts in men's hearts. The Hebrew and Greek words for both the heart (leber/cardia) and mind are different, and the Bible reflects the ignorance of ancients on the physiological roles of internal organs..

    In fact, ancient Hebrews believed the head contained the seat of the generative reproductive life-force (spirit; this is differentiated from the loosely-related nephesh, commonly referred to as the soul), which served as the site of one's drive (Greeks/Romans referred to this as one's 'genius'; note the common prefix). However, all cognition and thinking was done in organs of the torso (heart, lungs, kidneys, etc).

  • King Solomon
    King Solomon

    Oh, and I should remind everyone that the existence of souls are unproven fables and old wive's tales, as are angels, demons, Santa Claus, leprechauns, fairies, flying spaghetti monsters, ghosts, etc are similarly not given any reason to think that they exist.

    So quibbling over details of the soul is really debating how many angels can sit on the head of a sewing needle....

  • kepler
    kepler

    King Solomon,

    If it's quibbling to you, then leave it to others. As for myself, I'm going to dig in.

    Gen 1 is a different vision of God and creation than chapter 2 and 3. More akin to the notion of God who speaks in Exodus from burning bushes or within the clouds of Mt. Sinai. This God creates out of nothing. That's the one that text says man and woman is made in the image of - not a guy with a garden.

    Your perspective about punctuation is much the same, I suspect, as that of the director of that translation Frederick Franz . It looks like someone waited for about 1900 and some years to locate it. Otherwise, had the comma been invented and located a few centuries before, there wouldn't have been any Christianity. There wouldn't have been any people to knock on the doors of and tell them they had gotten it all wrong.

    Of course, in behalf of the argument the idea that Christ was telling the thief that he had something important to say on THAT DAY, much like a flyer to a memorial meeting, maybe he could have elaborated on all those future plans:

    -that Christianity for nearly the next 1900 years wouldn't amount to a hill of beans,

    [that he would discuss the 144,000 with John Patmos in a dream,

    - and that his next return to the Earth would be invisible, though re-scheduled several times and he would spread out his definition of "generation" into a discussion of who knows how many centuries...

    But this is not spelled out Biblically either.

    He said that something more direct that had more meaning than anything that anyone with a Watchtower in his hand had ever delivered to a door or prison cell.

    For me this issue is pivotal.

  • IamPresence2012
    IamPresence2012

    The bible was written by men,,,, find out the version prior to King James. Who was King James, a ruler/king? Then check the goverment records and books you might find this in Rome. They have a huge vault with hidden books and truth to free humanity. You can argue that everything inthe bible is the truth and if its not written then it does not exist.

    I do not need the bible to tellme who I am. Is my sould immortal yes, have I lived previous lifes yes. Lived in other planets and galaxies yes. Do I have proof writted down no, but I can access my Akashic records, this shows me all the lives I have lived. I am but a spiritual being having an experience in a physical body. Just like Avatar we move our conciousness from one body or life to another, learning and playing in this school called planet earth with all its duality. Are you having fun yet? I am!

  • Vanderhoven7
    Vanderhoven7

    Revelation 20:10 informs us that the devil will be tormented forever. So does the devil have an immortal soul or spirit that will be tortured eternally.

  • DATA-DOG
    DATA-DOG

    Scripturally speaking, Adam was a soul. That is a body with a spirit placed within it. Had he not sinned then he would never have died. So Adam was an " immortal soul " when he was created. What about us? We are born under the penalty of death, but the sentence is not carried out because of our faith in the ransom, and because of the grace of God.

    Even if our physical life ends we go back to the Father. Jesus said death was "sleep" not non-existence as the WTBTS teaches. So if we are resting in death, are we non-existent? Not according to Christ Jesus. If Adam had not sinned and taken a 1,000 year nap, would he still be immortal? Of course, because he was never non-existent or in oblivion. At the most he was just resting. So we also need to think about what death is when considering this subject, IMO.

    DD

  • Vanderhoven7
    Vanderhoven7

    True DD, all are alive to Him. Sleep yes, but the second death is not sleep.

    We put on immortality at the resurrection.

  • confusedandalone
    confusedandalone

    ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL The Bible ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL

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