On the day you eat... (page 3)

Deputy Dog

PSac

There had to be a "death" of some sort and a death of something, otherwise the passage, even as symbolisim or hyperbole or whatever, would make no sense at all.

Did their Spirit(?) die?

PSacramento

Did their Spirit(?) die?

Nope, the spirit can't die.

Deputy Dog

...the spirit can't die.

So what does it mean to be D-E-A-D spiritualy?

What does it mean to be dead in your sin?

Eph 2:5

Even when we were dead in sins...

PSacramento

I don't recall saying they were D-E-A-D spiritually...I don't even know what that would mean...

There was no LITERAL death, hence when I write it I write "death" in quotations.

Deputy Dog

PSac

I don't recall saying they were D-E-A-D spiritually...

What did Paul mean in Eph 2:5

I think Tammy's words were "Spiritual death"

PSacramento

I assume Paul meant they were dead to potential salavation untill the Grace of God came to them.

1 And you he made alive, when you were dead through the trespasses and sins 2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience. 3 Among these we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, following the desires of body and mind, and so we were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. 4 But God, who is rich in mercy, out of the great love with which he loved us, 5 even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up with him, and made us sit with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God— 9 not because of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

11 Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called the uncircumcision by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands— 12 remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near in the blood of Christ. 14 For he is our peace, who has made us both one, and has broken down the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by abolishing in his flesh the law of commandments and ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, 16 and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby bringing the hostility to an end. 17 And he came and preached peace to you who were far off and peace to those who were near; 18 for through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father. 19 So then you are no longer strangers and sojourners, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20 built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, 21 in whom the whole structure is joined together and grows into a holy temple in the Lord; 22 in whom you also are built into it for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.

He wasn't directing his letter to people that HAD been dead in the literal sense so we must assume he was speaking in the metphorical sense of being dead to God's salvation.

tec

I meant the same thing Jesus meant (from what I understand) when he said to let the dead bury their own dead. They weren't physically dead (unless we're talking about zombies burying their dead)... but they did not have 'life' within themselves.

If Adam and Eve were cut off from the tree of life... then they did not have and were prevented from having 'life' within themselves. As were all of us, until Christ came and gave us life.

Tammy

notverylikely

By gaining life through and having faith in His Son.

The only problem with that idea is that the opportunity to do was denied billions of people. God clearly didn't think that plan through.

Its a metaphore for God being outside of time and time not really applying to God.

That's an interesting idea, but one that is not supported. Everything attached to God in the bible talks about time, long periods of time. He is tied to. He cannot exist without it in the Bible. It's a convenient way to overcome physical and theological problems, but there is no biblical support for it.

PSacramento

That's an interesting idea, but one that is not supported. Everything attached to God in the bible talks about time, long periods of time. He is tied to. He cannot exist without it in the Bible. It's a convenient way to overcome physical and theological problems, but there is no biblical support for it.

Actually, the views that for God 1 day is like 1000 years and vice -versa, show that God is NOT subject to time as we know it, that is the point of those verses.

Time being relative is applied to God consistently, even before Enstein came up with it ;)

God's "timelines" being applied in a human way is something that the writers did and not correctly as it kept getting pointed out:

God is not subject to time as we know it.

It is not for us or anyoen to put a timeline on God.

notverylikely

If Adam and Eve were cut off from the tree of life... then they did not have and were prevented from having 'life' within themselves. As were all of us, until Christ came and gave us life.

Interesting idea. That would seem to imply that those that take advantage of Christ should regain life in themselves, basically and effectively gaining access to the same end as the tree of life would provide. However, I have never seen a Christian that didn't die, so that wouldn't make much sense.

Of course, if the reward is "no, you don't get immortal life until you die", that WOULDN'T be the same life, not an equivalent as the same thing Adam and by proxy his descendants gave up.

You only get life if you die? That's like saying you only get the medicine to heal yourself after you get the third degree burn.

On the day you eat...

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