I'm confused about the Memorial? Great crowd?

by thedepressedsoul 12 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  thedepressedsoul

  This was my first memorial thinking outside of the box. Last year I was starting to have questions but this is the first year I noticed a lot of BS. Can anyone clarify a few things for me?

  What exactly is the point of the "great crowd" passing around the bread and wine, it seemed very symbolic and almost pointless when I watched everyone pass it around.

  My biggest question that hit me was Jesus last supper, those that ate the bread and drank the wine with him were anointed. They also passed the emblems around. The drinking and eating only applies to the anointed but the passing of the emblems also applies to the great crowd? How could they differentiate the two? How did they come to the conclusion that the great crowd could pass and touch the emblems but they could not drink them. If we followed the logic that only the anointed could drink and eat of them since they were all anointed around Jesus, wouldn't it make sense that only the anointed could pass the emblems?

  According to the talk last night it was only anointed around Jesus, that is why they partook. If anyone was around them at the time that was of the great crowd they would not partake. How did they figure out that if the great crowd was with Jesus they would only pass them around and not partake? I feel like if you follow their logic only the anointed should eat and drink and ONLY the anointed should pass them too.

  The passing of them seemed very idolizing to me. They had to make sure that every single person touched the emblems. Like touching them was somehow important and vital. I can't help but feeling that maybe Jesus meant to continue remembering what he did and the importance of it. Who knows, I sure don't.
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  hardtobeme

  When Jesus eat the last supper, he was the only one anointed. The apostles were anointed at Pentecost. That being said, they were from the great crowd and Jesus told him to eat. They didn't have the heavenly hope. They didn't have the "yearning" to go to heaven as the WT says. According to the book of Acts, they were expecting Jesus to establish the kingdom on earth. So, no anointed ones partook of the emblems when the first memorial was established, when Jesus made the covenant with them.
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  William Penwell

  This never made any sense to me either. Like you had to actually touch the cup of wine and plate of crackers to make it official. Just more dub BS.
  
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  OneFingerSalute

  I saw that too. One must touch the plate and cup as if it has some magical power to infuse you with spirituality. The goofiest thing was they way the speaker had to touch each one. He couldn't take the plate or cup and then set them on the table, he had to take them, pause, and then pass them back to the wannabe hounder who then set them on the table.

  I read previously on here that a poster thought maybe the "great crowd" would be found in nu-lite to be second tier anointed. It made sense to me.
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  Crazyguy

  The key thing to remember is that Jesus is the only anointed one, no one else. By being with Christ and a follower of Christ one become like the body of Christ and therefore shares his anointing. Its also important to remember that the great crowd is all his followers, JWs try to make it as though the 144K are a different group but they are still part of the great crowd.

  Its also of note that Jesus told his disciple's there would be 12 throne for them to sit on, no where does it say 144K thrones. Rev 5:9-10 in Greek says they would the great crowd reign as priests on the earth. Notice in Greek it doesn't say they would be kings ruling over the earth. Also in Rev 20 those that become judges are the ones that were killed with the axes in Jesus name.

  If you don't think in Rev 5:9-10 is describing the great crowd then turn over to chapter 7:9 and you'll see their description is the same.
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  Bobcat

  Touching the plate and cup, whether you eat and drink or refrain, is intended by the WT to allow you to express your hope - either going to heaven or staying on earth.

  And yet they emphasize that only a relative few are going to heaven. And most of those have already died. So anyone who eats/drinks of the emblems becomes the object of others immediate judgment as to whether such a thing is really possible for that person.

  There are many ironies in this WT ceremony:

  1. The only ones who partake without question are the leaders, the governing body at headquarters. To question their partaking is to question their authority. Everyone else who partakes is somebody that 'believes' they are going to heaven. But as far as the leadership is concerned, that remains to be seen.

  2. JWs go to great lengths to invite outsiders to "observe" the Lord's Evening Meal. Yet, as you pointed out, they take pains to make sure everyone participates by being handed the plate and cup. If you noticed after the passing of the cup and plate, the brothers who did the passing of them must sit down and have the plate and cup handed to them. This, despite the fact that they have been handling the plate and cup as they passed it to all those in their seats. Finally, the the speaker has to be handed the cup and plate in the same ritualistic way. He is required to show where he stands on the matter.

  It seems to me from points "1" and "2" that this is an exercise in establishing who the leadership is and who those being led are. You show the acceptance of your place as a follower of the GB by passing the emblems without partaking.

  3. Another irony is that Jesus (and Paul) described the eating and drinking of the bread and wine as a way of 'remembering Jesus' death.' But at the Kingdom Hall, eating and drinking the bread and wine (or not doing so) is all about where you hope to go after this life.

  And I agree with your point about why have non-partakers in attendance. How odd to be invited to a ceremonial meal in order to watch others partake of it. Or in many Kingdom halls, to watch nobody partake of it. What a waste of food that Jesus would never have approved of (compare John 6:12; Matthew 14:20; Mark 8:8; Luke 9:17)

  Bobcat
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  jhine

  The better question is whether the teaching that there are two classes of Christians is correct . As someone who has never had the "advantage " of JW theology this idea of a two tier system is completely wrong and alien to me . I believe that the Bible does not support this teaching when read alone without any help from the Watchtower .

  Jan
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  freemindfade

  It was the Jewish passover. That night every one was eating matza and drinking wine
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  DwainBowman

  It's all to get the crowd, a since of awa and extra respect for those that do!

  A long time friend of mine started pertaking back in 70. I was just 12 at the time.but some years later I ask him how he knew, and he told me a lot of stuff, seemed to make sense. Well he stopped a few years ago!
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  notsurewheretogo

  Thing is...there was no dip...it was just dry bread...said this to my still-in wife as she looked in horror as I snacked on a bit of unleavened bread...surely Jebus would have used dip????

  I guess my wife won't invite me again to the memorial!