WTS is going down: Illusion or Reality?

by Martini 11 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Martini

  Hi Folks,
  It appears that the tides are turning upon the WTS. Judging by recent child abuse cases, UN scandal and Blood doctrine change that the WTS is being exposed and that the rest of the world is taking note. Is this for real or are these things more evident to us XJW's only because they are in our particular faces day in day out?

  Recall that when we were blindly following the WTS we thought that our Organization was at the center of the Universe. Of course this was a self imposed illusion, coming as a result of the repeatitive bragging by the WTS and seclusion of JW members from contact with the real concerns of the real world at large.

  Could this be happening to us here again in our own little cyber community? Are we again becoming victims of our own illusion?
  
  Martini
• 

  Guest 77

  You reap what you sow. How clearer can you get?

  Guest 77
• 

  seedy3

  Well, somehow I feel much of this will bring a lot of people to open up their eyes, but it seems there are so many that would follow the WTS to their graves. Such is typical for any Cult like group. The WTS in many JW's eyes can really do no wrong. I mean look at the REAL date of the BIG "A", not just a suggested one "1914". Soon after that day came and went (along with a few other dates soon after, due to the miscalculations LOL), many fell away and saw they were a False prophet bunch. Yet they seemed to survive, somehow. I'm sure that the WTS will survive this one as well, with a loss of membership, but the diehards will still stand by them, their heads buried in the sand, and feeling as they always say, "they are only human" and "they didn't mean it that way" or "it is now new light,it was not fully understood then". Yeah right, well what ever. I am however looking forward to the day when these idiots (JW's) stop calling me the liar, and they see who really are the liars here. LOL everytime the NGO thing got brought up, the only words from their mouths were, "your such a liar", "is that all you do is go around and spread lies about the WTS?". NOw I love to rub it in their faces, Who was the liar??? HMMMMMM

  Seedy
• 

  Amazing

  Hi Martini:

  "... or are these things more evident to us XJW's only because they are in our particular faces day in day out?" ... "we thought that our Organization was at the center of the Universe. Of course this was a self imposed illusion,"

  There is a potential the WTS could be brought down, given the reality of lawsuits, the UN, Blood issues, expose' of false prophecy, and better understanding of cult mentality.

  Unlike smaller cults that have gone bust - Branch Davidian, Peoples Temple, Solar Temple, Heaven's Gate, and a few others - cults that reach the size and scope of the WTS tend to eventually head more mainsteam. The World Wide Church of God (Armstrong's Group) went mainstream. They suffered a serious set-back with the State of California and went into Receivership many years ago. They emerged okay, but with new blood in the leadership - mostly college educated and moderates - allowed for this transition.

  If the WTS suffers a serious blow, and loses $Millions or maybe a $Billion or Two, then they just might be forced to go mainstream sooner than later. If not, then as they continue to grow and the "Old Guard" dies off, they still stand a chance of moving at least toward the center, if not fully mainstream. I suspect that the latter scenario may take a few decades, maybe as much as 50 years.
• 

  DakotaRed

  Sadly, many of the rank and file fail to see the hand writing on the wall. Just like we might have been, they don't want to think the Org is capable of such deceit and deception. This would include my own wife and her kids.

  Like stated earlier, I printed out the article on the latest lawsuit the other night for them to read. The younger daughter, 15 now, said it was a bunch of lies and made up. "She knows" the org would never be that low.

  Well, just watch and live and learn honey.

  I would love to hear the official response to that lawsuit!

  If God's Spirit is filling a Kingdom Hall, how is it that Satan can manuever the ones within that Kingdom Hall at the same time?
• 

  Martini

  Hi Amazing,
  Always enjoy reading your comments no matter what anyone else thinks.
  (or where they are from, hehehe)
  Actually you have addressed my concern exactly.I'm afraid the changes we are all hoping for will drag out indefintely like Armaggedon!
  I don't want my sanity to be tied to elusive hopes and dreams any longer. I think I will do what I personally can to educate others about dangerous cults like the WTS on my journey through life, but I don't feel it's healthy to stay connected to broader efforts that will drag say 50 years. Do you get the drift of what I'm feeling?

  Thanks,
  Martini
• 

  anewperson

  There is anger and denial in the face of reality, a desire to forget the ice water in the face, but it is too late.

  The WTS is being choked to death. The more we point out the need to change the more they kick against it. It hurts them kicking against the goads (pointed sticks).

  They are bleeding. They won't die totally but are losing all credibility faster and faster. Somewhere there is someone who calls himself a Pilgrim even today, so even the Pilgrim church has survived.

  We are deep into 2002 and even the biggest cultists now has his nose rubbed in the reality that his leaders misprophesied Armageddon. Daily JWs and exJWs become aware of the pedophile and other coverups.

  The end is closer than they think, but not the type of Armageddon they thought or wanted. Yet it's of their own making.
• 

  Preston

  Judging by recent child abuse cases, UN scandal and Blood doctrine change that the WTS is being exposed and that the rest of the world is taking note.

  Well, you metnioned three things that were given considerable discussion here at JW.com

  First of all, the child abuse cases. I've never really thought of child abuse cases as severely hurting the membership of any religion. Catholicism and Mormonism are churches that have lost millions of dollars in child molestation cases, and they continue to grow, expand, and use their PR effectively to highlight their good deeds.

  Now, The UN scandal. Cmon, almost nobody outside this web site and the upper schelons of UN and WBTS has even a cursory knowledge of the involvement with the UN, and, to tell you the truth, I don't think most people care. I don't even care (I know I'm the minority here on this one) and this is why: JW's don't really have a high-profile reputation as UN protestors, they're those people who annoy the heck out of their neighbors on weekends by trying to teach their interpretation of the Bible. I doubt even many JW's believe the UN has any reference to the Bible anyway. The story hasn't even made it to my newspaper. Besides it's such a kooky doctrine anyway...

  Now, a revoke on disallowing blood transfusions is something that I feel could lead to considerable attention although I don't forsee the WBTS as making a firm stand on the Blood Transfusion issue. Doing so would seriously hurt their image, and everyone here and their neighbor down the street knows it (assuming that the neighbor knows anything about Dub-dom). I think it's more reasonable to expect this issue to be relegated to the same extent as voting (something that's looked down upon but would be classified as a serious sin). Both stances (the blood one and the voting one) have led to many people dying, and yet, how many people left the org when new light came out about voting? As Kurt Vonnegut writes in Breakfast of Champions, "Doodley Squat!"

  Sorry if I come across as rude, please forgive me if I come across as such, but many people have had successful careers launching high demand organizations with members that are coerced to believe whatever the hell they want them to (again, look at Mormonism and Catholicism) and I don't forsee their organizations going down the toilet. The governing body is a group of extremely intelligent men, similar to a political body or a law firm, who have many people behind them, and are willing to support them out of fear. No matter what kind of humilty they excude they represent the truth of Henry Kissinger's words: power is the ultimate aphrodisiac.

  So, to make a long story short, don't hold your breath, at least, until they allow JW's to
• 

  Skeptic

  Those who think the WTBS will end anytime soon, are dreaming, IMHO.

  The WTBS is at heart a corporation and like all corporations, will do what it needs to do to survive and prosper. Its recent financial woes are similar to those experienced by many companies in these economical times.

  The recent organization of its corporations should severely limit its liability if it loses major lawsuits. The publicity of the lawsuits would probably do more financial damage.

  The WTBS has slowly been mainstreaming. It think it will still maintain more control of its member than most mainstream churches.

  In recent years, we have seen mainstreaming. Easying up on what components of blood can be used, not having to be nazi-like in checking what foods contain blood, allowing JWs to attend funerals and weddings in other churches, allowing sisters to attend Christmas dinners, allowing higher education, allowing retirement plans, not fixing a specific time period that the end will come in, etc. Expansion is mainly from those raised as JWs and some gather from informal witnessing. Just like mainstream churches.

  The mainstreaming will be slow, and will be driven by WTBS self-interest, not out of concern for R&F JWs. They have tapped the poorer and less educated population to the max. To expand, they will have to appeal to the middle and upper-middle class, and that will mean discarding teachings that are plainly absurd, not to mention that lower a person's quality of life. In other words, they will have to mainstream.

  I had these thoughts independently of Amazing, and agree with him wholeheartedly. I hope his figure of 50 years is accurate; I suspect it is low. I do agree that major changes will happen in 50 years.

  The WTBS knows that it must change slowly, but it can change doctrines without harm. "New Light" conveniently seems to favor whatever the WTBS needs at the moment. The Bible can be made to say anything.

  Richard
• 

  TweetieBird

  I would like to comment on the first part of your question.

  >>"It appears that the tides are turning upon the WTS. Judging by recent child abuse cases, UN scandal and Blood doctrine change that the WTS is being exposed and that the rest of the world is taking note. Is this for real or are these things more evident to us XJW's only because they are in our particular faces day in day out?"

  It probably is more evident to us as it is something that we are interested in, seeing the WTS exposed for what it is, therefore, I don't think the rest of the world is taking note of it as much as we would hope. With that said, though, more and more people "of the world" do have relatives, co-workers, friends that are JW's and are naturally curious when any publicity, good or bad, is brought out about them. When I was growing up as a JW, we were considered freaks of nature for belonging to a strange religion. Now JW's are more well known, and are considered like the rest of the world with the exception of being "door-knockers" and not celebrating holidays. To most non-witnesses, when I would tell them I was a JW, it was almost like saying I'm a baptist, catholic, jew, etc. It was like, "oh, ok, you're a witness."

  "If love is blind, why is lingerie so popular?"