Are JW's coached to be vague?

by InterestedOne 27 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  InterestedOne

  I recently emailed my JW friend a couple of questions about JW beliefs, and she gave a generic, vague response that did not answer my questions. Are JW's coached to answer in vague terms?

  I have been attending the TM "school," and although I see the "demonstrations" teaching JW's to give misleading opening lines at the door and canned answers to questions, my friend's response was not exactly canned. It was carefully written in a way that avoided the questions yet appeared to address them. It reminded me of when a reporter asks a politician a direct question, and the politician starts talking but not really answering the question. From what I know of my friend, she is not all that saavy in these techniques (thankfully), and I wonder where she is learning to do this. I wonder if she gave my questions to an elder and had him write the response. Is that possible, or is it more likely that she wrote it herself using a technique she has been learning through some part of the organization I'm not familiar with?
• 

  baltar447

  Can you give us a specific example? In times past, JWs have been better trained at using the bible to establish biblical reasoning, but now it's pretty much use the dumbed down literature and avoid any hard questions.
• 

  AGuest

  As to vagueness, most JWs are indeed vague in their response, dear IO (peace to you!) for two reasons: either they don't actually know the answer... or the answer is so asinine (or unsubstantiated by the Bible... or any other source, other than their publications), even they can't bring themselves to state it. Many don't even know the answer(s) as the WTBTS teach them. If it goes any deeper than the surface of the basic tenets of their religion (heavenly/earthly hopes, 144,000, great crowd, Armageddon, the FDS, Bethe[lites], Watchtower/Awake!, etc.), they usually go blank. Many don't even realize when there's "new light', as someone pointed out elsewhere. Thus, some are still teaching things that changed over 10-15 years ago.

  As to generic, the entire religious system of the JWs is based upon rehearsed, contrived, generic responses to certain questions. There are about 200 "generic" questions for which answers have been decided and provided by the WTBTS in one or two books:

  1. "Organized to Accomplish Our Ministry" - I'm not sure if they use this one any longer. If so, it's designed for those who wish to get baptized, are newly baptized but struggling, being reinstated but still harboring some "worldy" traits and thinking, etc. It's used to determine if one is "ready" to BE baptized [into the WTBTS] or to associate with its members once again. The marvel of this book is that more often than not they don't want to you TELL them what the answers are (at least, my elders didn't), but READ them directly from the book. Which made me wonder, at the time, how they knew if one WAS ready. I since learned that so long as one can read the answers (they ask the questions in order vs. randomly), they're considered "ready."

  2. "Reasoning from the Scriptures" - This is now their "Bible." Well, at least, for the elders. In it, they've taken the most FAQs and given written answers, along with scriptures and verses that are supposed to "support" their position (but many times does not; but they don't like to hear that). They will turn to this before they turn to the Bible. Heck, before they turn to common sense.

  This latter one is very much like the politician who has already rehearsed answers that skirt around questions he/she KNOWS will be asked. Your friends response most likely came from this book. If not... it almost certainly came from another WTBTS book. Don't judge her, though, as it was probably the best SHE could do, given what SHE does... or doesn't... know.

  I bid you peace!

  A slave of Christ,

  SA
• 

  diamondiiz

  No one is "coached to be vague." They repeat the party line which is usually vague in itself. When r&f don't understand something they go and do research and the only things they get are vague assumptions thus their answers to some topics are very lame. Most witnesses don't get tough questions but when tough questions are asked they don't have good answers which is why the listener finds it strange for "bible students" not knowing what they're talking about. Also you have to consider who you ask, a young individual, someone older in the cult and considered more "spiritual?'
• 

  blondie

  Jehovah's witnesses are trained to avoid answers to questions they feel a non-jw is not ready to understand....

  (John 16:12) "I have many things yet to say to YOU, but YOU are not able to bear them at present.

  *** w77 5/1 p. 278 "Make Disciples . . . Teaching Them" ***HOW AND WHAT TO TEACH

  Obviously, though, we disciples of Jesus Christ cannot present "all the counsel of God" at one time. First, hearts have to be prepared to accept truths that may run counter to local prejudices or ingrained habits. We must be considerate of people’s limitations, not making issues of matters that initially may be hard for them to grasp. This may include such things as the sanctity of blood, the Christian position on worldly holidays, the kinds of employment that violate Bible principles, Christian neutrality and the avoidance of all defiling habits. It is good to remember Jesus’ example in being considerate of his disciples’ limitations. John 16:12 quotes him as saying to his faithful apostles: "I have many things yet to say to you, but you are not able to bear them at present." Since the Son of God dealt so considerately with those who already were disciples, should not his true disciples today show like consideration for those whom they are trying to teach?

  *** km 2/07 p. 6 par. 1 Imitate the Great Teacher When Using the Bible Teach Book ***The Great Teacher, Jesus, always explained things in a simple, clear way. To stimulate the thinking of his listeners, at times he first asked them for their viewpoint. (Matt. 17:24-27) He directed attention to God’s Word. (Matt. 26:31; Mark 7:6) He was careful not to overwhelm his disciples with too much information, knowing that they would continue to learn. (John 16:12) Jesus was also interested in whether his disciples believed and understood what he taught them. (Matt. 13:51) The BibleTeach book is designed to help us teach in a similar manner.
• 

  blondie

  itsacult, can you delete this link to the elders manual because of copyright issues. Send it to baltar with a private message.
• 

  Leolaia

  The classic one is when they asked if they believe only JWs will survive Armageddon and they say, "We believe that God is the one who will judge hearts and it is up to him to decide who survives."
• 

  InterestedOne

  The specific questions I asked her (which I also posted to the beliefs & practices section a couple weeks ago) were regarding page 18, par 7 of the Sept 15, 2010 WT study ed for Nov 8-14. The author refers to the "one association of brothers," and says that "nowhere else can we hear the sayings of everlasting life. - John 6:68"

  I asked my JW friend to please tell me if the "one association of brothers" is referring to the group known as "Jehovah's Witnesses" directed by a group of men calling themselves the "Governing Body" with office headquarters in Brooklyn, NY who publish their statements through the nonprofit corporation called the Watchtower Society.

  I also asked how the author could possibly say that "nowhere else" can people hear the sayings of everlasting life when the teachings of Jesus have been publicly available in the Bible for longer than JW's have been around. Anyone can hear the teachings of Jesus regardless of whether or not they have any encounter with JW's. The only way I could see the author's statement making any sense is if he/she believes that the JW leaders possess extra sayings from Jesus beyond what is in the Bible, and thus these extra teachings would only be heard in their group. I asked "Do you believe your leaders possess extra teachings from Jesus beyond what is in the Bible?"

  Her response began by saying, "Jehovah's Witnesses believe what the Bible teaches." She said plenty of people "heard" Jesus teachings, but what does it take to really benefit from them? Then she gave a bunch of extra background info about the context of John 6:68 & how people thought Jesus was promoting cannibalism, etc. She explained how Peter put "whole souled" faith in Jesus teachings. She then said, "Likewise today, JW's put whole souled faith in those exact same teachings. That's why that statement could be made in the article."

  She did not answer my question about the specific identity of the "one association." She just said "Jehovah's Witnesses," which to me could mean anyone who believes in Yahweh, the God of the Israelites, but is not necessarily part of the organization based in Brooklyn, that has appropriated the name "Jehovah's Witnesses" for itself. I wanted to clarify if the author was specifically referring to the WT Society, but she never said one way or the other.

  Secondly, she didn't answer whether or not JW's believe their leaders possess extra teachings from Jesus beyond what is in the Bible. Instead, she chose to bring up a shade of meaning in the word "hear" as "to benefit from." She then went on to say that the author meant that JW's follow Jesus teachings. She is implying that the author meant noone can "hear" the teachings of Jesus except by being part of the group that follows his teachings.

  To me, this feels like she is playing with the language, but maybe I'm missing something.
• 

  Satanus

  What you're missing is that when she says jehovahs witnesses, she does not mean it in a generic sense, but is thinking of the org based in ny, which you named. 'Course, she is taught to not say so, directly to an uninitiated as yourself.

  S
• 

  agonus

  I think JWs in general probably sound more vague and evasive as time goes on because the WT is running out of ammo, so to speak. They're relying less and less on Scripture and reason to back up doctrine that is constantly shifting and are just getting more sloppy and apathetic by the day. Case in point: They can't even be bothered to update the badly outdated Reasoning book, supposedly the JW's "goto" book for doctrinal exegesis.