by Hobo Ken 18 Replies latest jw friends
In my experience it was all about keeping up appearances... don't want to bring reproach on God and all that.
It is easy for some elders to disfellowship first and ask questions later, saying, "Oh, well. We are not responsible. They are disfellowshipped."
Not at all how Jesus would have done things, in my humble opinion.
satinka
Marked for later
Downloaded the pdf onto my kindle ready to read over a quiet coffee in Costa - thanks Matt, LOVE the website revamp!
Is it really so surprising the manner and way the WTS. treat people when you consider the fact that they are emulating the social morals
of a ancient civilization that existed 2 to 4 thousand years ago. The social morals standards of the ancient Israelites for what is known of
them are not considered today justifiably fair or ethically balanced to modern day social behavior acceptance.
The god playing men of the WTS are not concerned about about modern ethics, particularly so if it weakens their intuitive of being masters
of their owned flock.
hobo ken
good on you and thanks for sharing.
Thanks for sharing. There was this quoted in the blog, the part that is underlined is noteworthy as it confirms their thought process. Any changes should come from the top down and not from the bottom up. It is understandable that as a religious group they want to maintain some sense of order but at what cost? I see it at the cost of the TRUTH and what really is God's word.
“Unity at all Costs”
Answer:
We believe in the Christian Army of God…
Question:
Back to the point now. A false prophesy was promulgated?
Answer:
I agree that.
Question:
It had to be accepted by Jehovah’s Witnesses?
Answer:
That is correct.
Question:
If a member of Jehovah’s Witnesses took the view himself that that prophecy was
wrong and said so he would be disfellowshipped?
Answer:
Yes, if he said so and kept persisting in creating trouble, because if the whole organisation believes one thing, even though it be erroneous and somebody else starts on his own trying to put his ideas across then there is disunity and trouble, there cannot be harmony, there cannot be marching. When a change comes it should come from the proper source, the head of the organisation, the governing body, not from the bottom upwards, because everybody would have ideas, and the organisation would disintegrate and go in a thousand different directions. Our purpose is to have unity.
Question:
Unity at all costs?
Answer:
Unity at all costs, because we believe and are sure that Jehovah God is using our organisation, the governing body of our organisation to direct it, even though mistakes are made from time to time.
Question:
And unity based upon an enforced acceptance of false prophecy?
Answer:
That is conceded to be true.
Question:
And the person who expressed his view, as you say, that it was wrong, and was disfellowshipped, would be in breach of the Covenant, if he was baptized?
Answer:
That is correct.
Question:
And as you said yesterday expressly, would be worthy of death?
Answer:
I think…
Question:
Would you say yes or no?
Answer:
I will answer yes, unhesitatingly.
Question:
Do you call that religion?
Answer:
It certainly is.
Question:
Do you call it Christianity?
Answer:
I certainly do.
-
Court of sessions, Scotland; L. Strachan V. Douglas Walsh, testimony given by
Hayden C. Covington, (then Chief Legal Counsel for Watchtower Bible and
Tract Society [1954] Pages 347, 348)
-
Original Court Transcript Found at: http://www.archive.org/details/WalshTrial
It is true that I was a raised a Witness in an extended family of Witnesses. My parents were neither in nor out. We were allowed leeway at home but if relatives visited there would be frenetic activity removing my baby sister's pilgrims from walls and the sort. I attended a very low socioeconomic Kingdom Hall with problems resulting from the culture. I was so envious of people my age (teenagers) who were dedicated early. Soon, there would be two and three disfellowships announced per week for sexual behavior. Disfellowshipping was a frequent occurrence so perhaps not at the very first but a relatively new person could see the role disfellowshipping took. I always thought it was worse when your family were Witnesses. Many hours I plotted ways to have my parents more in the mainstream so my grandmother and aunts would love me unreservedly, the way my cousins were loved.
I became Anglican after years of questioning and not understanding. Part of it was acknowledgment that not everything can be tied up neatly and that questions lead to a more important truth. After I decided to become Episcopal, I waited until women were ordained with the full blessing of General Convention. Menstruation is not filthy. Women are not unclean.
Equity demands clean hands. Communist China under Mao and the Soviet Union under Stalin had constitutions that proclaimed the same liberties held sacred by Anglo/Americans. Only the reality was very different. Imagine Jesus or St. Paul conducting these hearings.
I apologize for my glibness concerning the pain imposed by these actions. The world has claimed me for decades. The JC could serve a valuable function in waking one up to the fundamental nature of the Witnesses. Indeed, when I was active, the isolation was unbearable. Now we can communicate 24/7 here. The truth is I actually felt physical pains about rejection. When I performed completely, I still felt unworthy. Once Fundamentalists Anonymous appeared on the Regis Philbin show when it was still a local NY show. The man spoke movingly of the Witnesses and the Armstrong church. I telephoned the producers to get his contact information. When I told him my enduring pain from being a Witness, he admonished me. I had a college and law degree, good friends, excellent mother, top jobs. He said he was doing emergency work with suicidal people. Suicidal people who had zero social supports.
I don't believe the pain is in doctrinal disputes. Witnesses are not taught to have good self-esteem. Creation is so bad. They are discouraged from seeking help outside of the organization. As a teenager, I found it very painful to realize the divinely appointed brothers could not read on an elementary school level. I did not leap into the lap of the world. Rather, I bumbled and stumbled, awkwardly for a long while. Despite no belief, 1975 was sheer hell on earth. I was very interested in politics but hid it from my Witness relatives.
God wants us to live and to live abundantly. Witness life is enduring pain. When I started college, I thought all my problems would disappear in a culture where I would flourish. I carried baggage from the Witnesses. Things that are so easy now were so difficult then. I could not dance. Social introductions were awkward. It did not happen overnight. Going to an art museum was strange. Now I eat arugula with relish.
The Witnesses have a right to discipline those who don't meet their criteria.
They get if from their God - who will soon destory every man, woman, and child who does not meet witness criteria.
That belief alone is all we need to know about JW ethics.
@ designs an excellent point you make. If it was fully explained to a possible new convert what could potentially happen to them should they contravene the rules I'm sure most would not join. The principle method of cults is to limit the amount new or potential members are aware of until it becomes too late for them to leave without loss. This is exactly how Jehovah's Witnesses operate.
@jookbeard Really interesting you managed to avert df'ing on that occasion. Does that mean you later did get Df'ed?
What I need to tell myself about these people is no matter how "nice" they may be or how much you personally like them they will turn their back on anyone. A father , a son , a daughter , grandchild they've never met. They all share the same regard for the org and it's mechanisms. Some find it harder to shun but still do it in their own way.
@farkel Well summed up.
@foundsheep You can be df'ed for anything...all that's needed is an agenda. In my case one elder with enough power and charisma to sway others.
@fokyc Correct. Couldn't agree more.
@boyzone Thanks alot. And I like your new avatar!!!! lol. An homage to the Deathorobedience....
@thetrueone You know I agree with what you say as an ancient people's morals and way of life even is not applicable in the modern world.
Further to that many of the things recorded in the old testament itself are very questionable from an ethical and moral perspective too.
@curtains thanks
@listener Well you know truth is a very distant relation to the Watchtower Society and the Governing Body. I personally was shocked when I found the flagrant "twisting" not to mention insertion ,extraction, mistranslation contained in the new world translation. It showed me that these people are more interested in perpetuating their own floundering existence than actual truth and intellectual honesty. The lies they continue to peddle regarding established history in the case of 607 B.C.E. is a case in point. They need this date for the foundation of their doctrinal cornerstone of 1914 , so will continue to teach 7 million people lies.
@ bandontherun
A very moving story and I'm glad you made it out and are doing well. Many have baggage from their time "inside" and the only consolation is you're now free. All the best!
@jameswoods
Yip not very ethical at all is it?
@itsacult
it is after all a cult.
Thanks to all for posting.
