If this man had never lived YOUR LIFE would be entirely different! Part 1

by Terry 29 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  Terry

  If this were published in wikipedia (not a paragon of excellence at that) it would be flagged POV. We don't live inside Miller. How do we know he was sincere?

  A person who is insincere does not admit their error.

  A person who is insincere doesn't devote their life to something preposterous unless it enriches them.

  Miller did apologize and I've seen no indication he was monetarily rewarded in any way. He was, however, reviled.

  Where Miller is intellectually dishonest, however, is in failing to completely back away from End Times beliefs AFTER abundant demonstration of their falsity.

  This amounts to either hubris, stubborness or vapidity.

  I miss the point. Miller as distinguished statesperson? The record does not reflect it. Knowledge that the WTBTS is not alone in calculating goofy dates? Helpful to those willing to believe.

  Jesus says no one knows the hour. I trust Jesus. Between Jesus and Miller, Jesus has my vote.

  I never stated that Miller was a distinguished statesperson. He was a war hero with a fine family background. His gravitas was that of a serious-minded believer who respected the Bible as a source of latter day prophecy.

  The calculating of goofy dates is among the most unfortunate aspects of mystical christians who totally misunderstand that the Bible is not a source of encylopedic precision. It is storytelling dressed up as biography, conversation and inspiration.

  The largest error Christianity makes is in viewing the Bible as though it were NOT manmade fanfiction. When I say "fanfiction" I mean a whole lot of

  imagination added to what kernels of fact managed to pass through history unscathed by superstious Jews.

  RELIGION is SUPERSTITION and superstition does not feed on fact--rather, it feeds on emotional investment in wish-fulfillment.
• 

  Band on the Run

  Unscathed by superstitious Jews. Are Jews more superstitious than any other religion? Perhaps if we sat face to face, I'd understand more of the motivations.

  So many people fought in the Revolution. Casualties and fatalities were heavy. There were fewer people than now. Many heroes of the day became ridiculed with changes in the time. My understand is that Paul Revere came to be reviled. I see nothing noteworthy in calculating the end times. It is a mark of remarakable hubris.

  I've read contemporary accounts of the people assembling for the end and the absolute terror that ensued as time passed with no Armageddon. Was Millerism a primarily American phenomenon?

  Abolitionism was first forged in this crucible. I see that as praise-worthy. Nonsense made historical is still nonsense.
• 

  Terry

  Unscathed by superstitious Jews. Are Jews more superstitious than any other religion? Perhaps if we sat face to face, I'd understand more of the motivations.

  Don't miss the point that THE BIBLE was the handiwork of the Jews almost entirely. Their superstition was used as a launching pad for mystical Jesus stories. Christianity only tore loose of the umbilical when AD 70 destroyed the orthodox foundation from under it.

  It is the Christian weakness for supersitious super-power embedded in Holy Writ that creates End Times fervor.

  Holy Writ wasn't even "holy" as it was being pumped out, collated and redacted. It was culture.
• 

  Band on the Run

  As I suspected, this is rampant antiSemitism. Jesus was Jewish. The apostles were Jewish. Judaism if anything is less superstitious than many religions. If you are Christian, your God was Jewish. Some mysticism is present in John but not so much in the Synoptic Gospels. Mark, the earliest, is not mystical. His Jesus is starkly radical and based in real time. I suspect that the mysticism of John, esp. the prologue, is what makes it so palatable to us today.

  So much truly evil antiSemitism has existed in our culture that it is sad to see one categorize/dismiss a religion as superstitious. Perhaps I can critique Christianity precisely because I am Christian, just as African-Americans can use the "N" word with no offense with each other.

  The content is neither here nor there for me. I don't understand the lionizing of Miller. John Edwards' apologized. Do I infer he was sincere when he apologized after coming very close to destorying a political party? No, I don't. Miller's beliefs caused severe pain for many. I find it incredulous that any human can calculate the end times. Jesus expressly says no man can. Why bother? How do you change your life? Hitler may have been sincere for all I know. Sincere people do bad things all the time. WTBTS is one good example.
• 

  Terry

  The content is neither here nor there for me. I don't understand the lionizing of Miller. John Edwards' apologized. Do I infer he was sincere when he apologized after coming very close to destorying a political party? No, I don't. Miller's beliefs caused severe pain for many. I find it incredulous that any human can calculate the end times. Jesus expressly says no man can. Why bother? How do you change your life? Hitler may have been sincere for all I know. Sincere people do bad things all the time. WTBTS is one good example.

  It is difficult to penetrate your frame of reference for objection.

  Who exactly is lionizing William Miller? He was goofy but sincere. He damaged a lot of people no matter how inadvertantly so.

  Humans can't calculate end times. Mainly because the entire notion of End Times is myth from start to finish. It is perpetuated by certain elements

  of religion as an issue to rally a power base.

  Now, having made all that AS CLEAR AS I CAN POSSIBLY MAKE IT---

  The purpose of this topic is to point out that there would be no Jehovah's Witness religion without William Miller's precedent.

  That is what is meant by "YOUR LFE would be entirely different"--most of us here were JW's and it damaged our lives.

  No William Miller; no Russellism. No Russellism; no Jehovah's Witnesses.

  As a sidebar: the unique claim made by Jehovah's Witnesses is that they have a DIRECT CHANNEL TO GOD through the Faithful and Discreet Slave connection.

  By demonstrating this claim cannot possibly be true due to the HEAVY BORROWING of Adventist doctrines I'm inviting dicussion on the points of doctrine and how UNoriginal they are in JW belief.

  Now--is that clear enough?

  I know it is hard to read an entire topic and all the digressions and keep track of the MAIN POINT.
• 

  PSacramento

  I think that some people really, REALLY want the second coming, they want it more than anything, they want it so bad they can taste it.

  One should ask why.
• 

  dgp

  Marked.
• 

  Terry

  Let's compare and contrast, shall we?

  In the REAL WORLD (i.e. not religious thinking which represents everything as a "sign") there is cause and effect on a personal level.

  1.The better your education the better your chances for success. Success leads to a better life and improved opportunity.

  2.Good decisions and life-choices lead to better advantage and greater coping skills.

  3.Life is one obstacle after another pitted against your skillset, intelligence and resourcefulness.

  Compare that HARD WORK to the Religious alternative view of End Times thinking:

  1.Believe in Jesus and you'll get saved from the Great Tribulation and rewarded with life in (either heaven or) paradise.

  2.The sooner Armageddon comes the quicker your reward

  4.What you hold to be true is much more significant than any personal efforts made to BRING ABOUT a better life.

  I think this tells the whole story of the obsession with END TIMES obsessions by Jehovah's Witnesses and others.

  They develop no real life skills for anything practical. As a result their day to day existence is depressing drudgery with little opportunity for a better life on their own.

  Being poorly equipped for life in the real world they long for an easy solution: God solves all their problems forever FOR THEM.
• 

  PYRAMIDSCHEME

  I read the title and knew instantly who Terry was talking about: Ole Billy Miller. If only the British had been better shots. But alas those old muskets were notoriusly inaccurate.
• 

  Terry

  I read the title and knew instantly who Terry was talking about: Ole Billy Miller. If only the British had been better shots. But alas those old muskets were notoriusly inaccurate.

  Well, point taken.

  It wasn't just the crazy chronology Miller cooked up that sold people on the idea Jesus was uh commin down the pike real soon. No sir.

  It was MILLER himself. He was so straight arrow. So, ordinary. So reluctant and careful and unprepossessing.

  The man and the plan are a package deal in this instance.

  Like Pastor Russell with those large sincere eyes and al that money thrown into a combination whiz-bang scheme that cooked Pyramidology with the a Chart of the Ages. What a mesmerizing combination!

  Joseph Smith's razzle-dazzle would not have taken any other man as far as Smith went with it. Joseph Smith was a brilliant fellow and handsome as the devil himself. His clever and charming way with people and his mind-blowing Book of Moormon launched a homegrown religion right here in the U.S. of A.

  Billy Graham was a real humdinger too. Blazing blue eyes, master race curly blonde hair, stentorian voice and sincerety by the gallon he could pack em' in Yankee Stadium day after day and bring people forward with his altar calls. But, he never came up with his own proprietory religious scheme. He was and is True Blue. Now that he is a feeble old man nobody seems to care anything about his books or his opinions any more.

  What is the moral of the story?

  Write your own.