Question for Board/Current JWs re Holy Spirit/holy spirit...

by AGuest 39 Replies latest jw friends

  • Chalam
    Chalam

    Hi LV,

    Always good to see you :)

    Stephen: so according to 2 Corinthians 3:17 where the spirit of the Lord is there is FREEDOM --- this means no religion necessary?

    Indeed, freedom in Christ is essential Luke 4:18 Galatians 5:1

    It depends what one's definition of "religion" is? The word is only used a handful of times in the bible itself.

    However, the word has become quite negative in many Christian circles because it brings to mind people following the rules and traditions of men, not the Spirit.

    the scripture about continuing to associate together and build one another up, etc., was for that time period?

    Everything in the New Testament is for us who believe, as prompted by the Holy Spirit!

    The WT do not want anyone believing the NT is for them so they have come up with the lie that it is only for the "144,000". Compare that with what is written here Acts 2:37-39 or here Ephesians 1:13-14 or here 2 Timothy 1:13-14

    In fact, the WT falsely proclaim only the "anointed" can understand it

    The New Testament writes that all who believe in Christ are anointed and can understand the bible throught the Holy Spirit, see John 14 for example.

    not that i want to join a religion but curious. wouldn't know where to start searching for the "true" religion and that never made sense to me w/the hundreds, thousands, whatever, out there.

    Meeting with fellow believers in the power of the Spirit is still paramount, hence the New Testament mentions it all the way from Acts 2 to the end of Revelation.

    If you are looking for a church then ask what gifts of the Spirit are in operation? 1 Corinthians 12

    Indeed, how do they follow the direction of the Holy Spirit rather than a set format or the will of the leaders?

    Of course, first of all make sure you ask the Lord to lead you to the right church!

    Blessings in Christ,

    Stephen

  • jay88
    jay88

    Quality Thread Shelby!

    I can not see the difference between existence and spirit; they are synonymous.

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    Doesn't Paul write eloquently of the "fruits of the spirit" in Corinithians or it Romans. The book is acknowledged by all to be authentically Paul. He mentions various gifts, such as speaking in tongues (which he does not find very useful), prophecy,etc. but the most important is love. I never experienced the Witnesses as having a single gift of the Holy Spirit, let alone being the Holy Spirit itself.

    Despite being raised a Witness, I find the experience so embarassing. Would you buy the Brooklyn Bridge from someone on the subway? They refuse to engage in any true discussion. They not only run from debate, they run from discussion. I have a host of Protestant and some Catholic scholarly aids. During one subway ride, I spied some Bethelites. You just know they are Bethelites from the odd dress and body language. I sat next to one and flirt, trotting out my family's credentials which are extraordinary. They become almost orgasmic. Then, they realize I revealed nothing about myself. I purposely string the conversation along, deflecting questions until my stop is next. I announce I actually read a Bible and found the Witness lies. Further, I know stuff from family members at Bethel that would utterly shock them. I never flirt. The Witnesses robbed me of my flirting gene.

    Do people here feel it is worth the ever to be able to refute every last belief in case the Witnesses mistakenly knock at the door. I've lived in large apt. buildings in Manhattan and private complexes. It is not public property. I briefly tell them they should read the Bible on their own and then consider whether the Witnesses tell Bible truth. Next, I ask for the name of the tenant or management agent that let them on the property because without my confirming their permission to be on the premises, I am telephoning the police for trespass.

    I often feel it is futile to talk to them. Talking to them even briefly as I slam and bolt the door triggers all the old shame in me. When it is noon outside and they proclaim it is the darkest night, I am uncomfortable. Nothing I could ever show my relatives would ever work. Also, adults have a right to believe crazy stuff. Children are a very different story. I became a lawyer to protect Witness children. My faith is complex and sophisticated. I have doubts. This is called maturity. Part of me, a small part, found the absolutely certainty comforting. Persecution itself has an upside. Rather than running, my belief was stronger.

    OFF TOPIC- Mostly, I run into them at Penn Station or Center City, Philadelphia in the transit buildings. They sit with each other. As a child, I stood up and bothered people. I actively looked in their faces and begged them to take a magazine. Invariably, their conversation is so engaged, if I wanted a Watchtower so badly that I would commit a crime or pay a billion dollars, one cannot disrupt them. It annoys me this is Witness time. Are there rules about witnessing on Internet sites? I see it more and more frequently. A nice one is active on wikipedia without disclosing his Witness stature expressly.

    I remain terrified of holy rollers and other Pentecostals. Altho Paul does list "speaking in tongues" , I can't tolerate even being within five miles of someone speaking in tongues. Demons on the loose! Santierra candles appear in NY Roman Catholic and Anglican churches. My cultural bias is strong.

    The Holy Spirit is tricky. Henry VIII's persecutions. Slaughter of the Hugenots. The Inquistion. It seems to approach God when no political power is involved. As a New Yorker, 9/11 shook me to my very core. We responded admirably. It strikes me that the Taliban and the WTBTS are the same creature.

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento

    Paul's mention of "gifts of the spirit" was in direct reply to those in Corinth that beleived soem gifts greater than others.

    Speaking in tounges by the way, has taken an interesting "turn" from when Paul and Peter ( In Acts) used it, for them it was the ability to speak another language other then their own, a gift from the HS to allow one to preach to foreigners.

    The HS motivates one to love and forgive and accept, any feelings of hate, persecution and hurting others is NOT from the HS.

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    Thank you, dear LV101 (again, peace to you!), but I meant your reference regarding "the scripture about continuing to associate together and build one another up..."

    I remain terrified of holy rollers and other Pentecostals.

    By why is that, dear BOTR (peace to you, as well!)? Have you not read/heard that "Perfect LOVE... casts ALL fear... OUTSIDE"? Love for such folks, regardless of their "religion", should rid you of your fear. Indeed, if God is FOR you... WHO can be AGAINST you? Which is something that always fascinated me about JWs, who used such statement... but like so many others, obviously didn't get the sense of it.

    Although Paul does list "speaking in tongues" , I can't tolerate even being within five miles of someone speaking in tongues. Demons on the loose! Santierra candles appear in NY Roman Catholic and Anglican churches. My cultural bias is strong.

    Indeed, for nowhere... and from no one... other than the WTBTS... are we told that demons speak... in tongues. True, there is the tongue of angels (take note, dear PSacto... and the greatest of love and peace to you, dear one!)... but demons don't speak it because it is a pure language. In every case documented in the Bible, they spoke in very clear language... in the tongue of whoever they addressed... so as to be understood and need no interpreter. They even acknowledged my Lord... as Christ AND the Son of God. But may I ask you: if Christ didn't fear demons... and the Apostles didn't fear demons... and Paul/Barnabas/Luke, etc., didn't fear demons... where do you get this fear? While I'm sure there are a couple/few others, the only sources I can think of are: the Catholic Church (because of their exorcising rituals), the movies... and the WTBTS.

    The Holy Spirit is tricky.

    Ah, no, dear one. There is absolutely NOTHING tricky about him. It is earthling man who is tricky. Demons aren't even tricky. They are impotent... unless given power. They have no authority, so they can't take it - it must be given... either by the one over whom they hold control, or someone who has taught/led/compelled such one to give it inadvertently. And that would never be the Holy Spirit because a house divided against itself cannot stand.

    Henry VIII's persecutions.

    The Holy One of Israel... who is the Holy Spirit... was not involved. That was the man, Henry... and his religious advisers, false christs and false prophets that they were.

    Slaughter of the Hugenots. The Inquistion.

    Again, my Lord was not involved, not at all. Again, men... corrupt, wicked, offspring of vipers. Following the leadings of THEIR father, and not the Most Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies.

    It seems to approach God when no political power is involved.

    I don't understand this statement, sorry.

    As a New Yorker, 9/11 shook me to my very core. We responded admirably.

    Just as Hiroshima most probably shook the Japanese to their core. And bombings in Indonesia, all over Africa, Pakistan, Iraq, the fall of Jerusalem, and all other man-made disaster have shook people to their core. The only difference here is that "we" thought "we" were impenetrable. So did Babylon, dear one. And Jerusalem. And Japan. And... and... and...

    It strikes me that the Taliban and the WTBTS are the same creature.

    Not quite, dear one. The Taliban is interested in preserving its way of life, which is dependent upon two things: opium and keeping women in a submissive position. While it true that the WTBTS may have some interest in keeping women in a submissive position, their primary goal is to mislead, if possible... EVEN the chosen ones. Thus, their false christs and false prophets.

    I hope this has helped and, again, peace to you!

    A slave of Christ,

    SA

  • TD
    TD

    ChelleB

    In JW-land, holy spirit is the "Royal Jelly" of the hive. --Something that even the worker bees and drones aren't entitled to directly. (Sorry if that analogy is lame.)

    When an outsider (i.e. A non-witness) says that the Lord actively communicates with them, wouldn't the average JW automatically conclude something uncomplimentary?

  • AGuest
    AGuest
    When an outsider (i.e. A non-witness) says that the Lord actively communicates with them, wouldn't the average JW automatically conclude something uncomplimentary?

    Greetings, dear TD (peace to you!), and... yes. And I totally get that. BUT... it just seems like it was something... ummmm... more. Different. Again, I could just be reading more into it than was there, but it just doesn't seem so. Since no one has stepped forward and said they've been told/directed what to do/how to react, beyond what's in the Reasoning book, then I'm cool. I think I will ask outright, the next time I speak with an African American JW. Won't come right out about the Holy Spirit until I get their "take" on it/him. I'll let you all know how it goes.

    Until then... peace to you!

    A slave of Christ,

    SA

  • LV101
    LV101

    Chalam --- thank you for your information and knowledge, and i will look up the scriptures you've referred to. i really appreciate your help and your taking time to answer.

    thanks again,

    LV101

  • Chalam
    Chalam

    No problems LV101, always a pleasure :)

    I just PMed you BTW.

    Blessings in Christ,

    Stephen

  • wasblind
    wasblind

    " In JW-land, holy spirit is the "Royal Jelly" of the hive. --Something that even the worker bees and drones aren't entitled to directly"

    TD ,

    you can only get it by following the Org.

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