Yeah, but kyser, what other groups have specifically said "God authorizes the use of appropriate "rods" to beat their children"? They even used a "wooden ruler" as an example of what to use.
JW Whips 12 year old daughter to death !! This is very graphic be warned!!
by Hairyhegoat 61 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse
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whatistruth
I recall at about 10 years old my jw friend in same cong as myself used to tell me that his father and mother would constantly hit him and her in the face with an open hand and on the head since they could remember, beatings with a belt buckle and they were not bad kids at all. Most jw's are very angry inside for many obvious reasons then they take out there anger out in different ways. What this father and mother did is inexusable and disgusting. I was always so scared of them when i had to see them weekly and i wouldn't go their house. Later i told my mother and father and they did nothing about it.
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keyser soze
Yeah, but kyser, what other groups have specifically said "God authorizes the use of appropriate "rods" to beat their children"?
God does authorize it, in the scriptures. I'm not defending it, but it's there. But most JWs I knew didn't take it literally. I certainly didn't know of any that whipped their children to such an extent that it caused their death. It's an extreme case that isn't indicative of most JW families I knew.
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brotherdan
Yeah, obviously this was an extreme example. But the Bible doesn't authorize the beating of kids. Shepherds never beat their sheep into submission. The rod was used for guidance. If you've ever seen a herder, then you will see that they use some type of rod, stick, or whatever to show their sheep where to go.
We just had a meeting at the WT study about young people and there were a good 3 or 4 comments on the need to spank kids. If you authorize this, then there are inevitably going to be people that take this to an extreme. Seriously, in what other situation in our society is it ok to hit people if they don't listen to us?
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keyser soze
I'm not disputing that the WT authorizes spanking children. But they are hardly unique in doing so, nor are they encouraged to take it to such an extreme, or even close. Comments that imply as much are irresponsible and misleading.
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thetrueone
There was another Christian based faith that were using long rods to beat disobedient children within their members.
Someone alerted the authorities and the police came and arrested some of the members of the church and took and away
the wooden rods used to beat the children.
Goes to show the ridiculously unjust and damaging effects of trying to emulate the social morals of a civilization ( ancient Israelites)
that existed 2000 years ago.
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Lady Lee
Moved into "Child Abuse"
Nathan
"the biblical punishment of "40 lashes minus one, three times," -- Biblical? WHERE? WHERE DOES IT SAY THIS?
A pure guess on my part but if at the time of the flood "40 days and 40 nights" destroyed people then 40 - 1t would simply be discipline if it was 1 less than the 40
oops I was wrong on that 2 Corinthinians 11: 24 says: "By Jews I five times recieved forty strokes less one"
Hmmmm maybe partly right
Deut 25: 3 says "With forty strokes he may beat him. He should add none for fear he should continue to beat him with many strokes in addition to these and your briother is actually disgraced in your eyes"
It seems there was a tradition of the 39 strokes. Wikipedia says:
During the American Revolutionary War, the American Congress raised the legal limit on lashes from 39 to 100 for soldiers who were convicted by courts-martial.
and
Judaism
Main article: Corporal punishment (Judaism)According to the Torah and Rabbinic law lashes may be given for offenses that do not merit capital punishment, and may not exceed 40. However in the absence of a Sanhedrin, corporal punishment is not commonly practiced in Jewish law. Halakha specifies the lashes must be given in sets of three, so the total number cannot exceed 39. Also, the person whipped is first judged whether they can withstand the punishment, if not, the number of whips is decreased.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06092a.htm says
The offender was to be beaten in the presence of the judges (Deuteronomy 25:2, 3), but was never to receive more than forty stripes. To keep within the law, it was the practice to give only thirty-nine. The culprit was so attached to a Low pillar that he had to lean forward — "they shall lay him down", says the law, to receive the strokes.
I am soooo glad my mother didn't know about this. She beat us all before she became a JW. The WTS just gave her a good excuse to keep doing it.
I would think that if an abusive parent had to count the strokes it might keep him from losing total control but in reality by the time a parent gets that angry counting isn't going to do a lot to control them.
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brotherdan
I don't know why you guys think that the bible teaches spanking children.
Deuteronomy 6:6-9 says "These commandments that I give you today are to be upon your hearts. Impress them on your children. Talk about them when you sit at home and when you walk along the road, when you lie down and when you get up. Tie them as symbols on your hands and bind them on your foreheads. Write them on the doorframes of your houses and on your gates."
According to Jewish scholars, the Torah rejects both of the following extreme parenting ideas: the idea that children must be taught rules and punished when they fail to keep them, and the idea that all discipline is terrible for a child's self-esteem. The idea is that harsh words should be used in the beginning, to delineate for the child where the line is drawn, so to speak, so they know the boundaries they are expected to respect. Then, if the child does not respect those boundaries, gentle words should be used to win the child over (1). The Rabbi states that "The Talmud prohibits spanking an older child, b'no gadol, based on v'lifnei iver lo sitein michshol. The child may rebel and sin, and the parent is responsible for that sin." Rav Wolbe claims that today, striking a three-year old causes a michshol, a stumbling block, and is prohibited. "Even if a child is not bar mitzvah, if, because of his nature, there is a reasonable chance that he will rebel with words or deeds, and ultimately curse or strike his parent, it is prohibited to hit him. Rather, one must persuade him with words."
Deuteronomy 21:18-21 says "If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. They shall say to the elders, 'This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a profligate and a drunkard.' Then all the men of his town shall stone him to death. You must purge the evil from among you. All Israel will hear of it and be afraid."
This passage is instruction given to parents whose GROWN child has become a profligate and a drunkard. A profligate was someone who spent all his money on riotous living, like the Prodigal Son of Luke 15:11-32. The purpose of the stoning was not to change the behavior of this adult child, but to purge evil from the house of Israel. The parents said that their discipline had not changed his behavior, so now he had to be punished. That is the difference between discipline and punishment. A child is disciplined while there is still hope of him changing. Punishment is a final judgement of God against a person when there is no longer any hope of changing his heart. Punishment is not a form of discipline, and this stoning is not an example of discipline. In discipline, we show grace to the child. In punishment, God shows justice.
As parents, we are required to show to our child the same grace in discipline that God has shown us. Since we no longer live under the Old Law, punishment is something we cannot embrace. That does not mean we do not discipline at all, but simply that we do not punish as part of that discipline. -
steve2
Whoever started this thread is totally unfair in their conclusions.
Would you start a thread that asserted the Pentecostal religion caused members tio beat their children because pentecostal parents in your community were facing charges of child abuse? probably not.
Dredging up these sorts of news items then claiming that it is the product of the JW environment is inexcusably one-eyed.
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Vidiot
This reminds me of stuff that was advocated in some fundamentalist home-schooling regimen I'd heard about. I wonder if the Slacks were using it.
I remember back around '01 the WTS put out a talk defining the "rod" as a shepherd's rod, i.e. one used to gently guide sheep, rather than beat them. Even money says that that talk was a response to this event.