I wonder what effect this had on the elders and MS's who have teenagers. Hmmmm....
Some observations from the KM Elder School I wanted to share with you.
by miseryloveselders 139 Replies latest jw friends
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TheStumbler
Nice post miseryloveselders, really enjoyed reading it and the insight it gave.
I am curious, I assumed the organisation's oppposition to higher educated was a relic from the past. Most of the Watchtower quotes I see on this issue are fairly old so I thought organisation had a more tolerant attitude towards it these days.
The JWs I know all, without exception are very disparaging about higher education which is funny because none of them have one. They seem to think that higher education indoctrinates people against God's word when, in my experience, it simply teaches people how to think for themselves. I suppose that is exactly what the organisation wants to prevent.
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VM44
"When it came to education, the grand puba made the statement that if any elder, or anyone in his immediate family was attending a university, his qualications were to be reviewed. Here's the real kicker. If the other elders on that body did not review his qualifications, they were all culpable."
Culpable of what?
My understanding is that it is NOT un-Biblical to attend a college or university!
"Another thing he stated was that if one chooses to pursue higher education, it shows they don't have loyalty to the faithful and discreet slave."
"The Faithful and Discreet Slave"? I wonder if he really meant "The Governing Body"? They are not the same, but Watchtower speakers often mix the two terms up as if they were equivalent to each other.
This speaker speaking sounds very much like that of a pharisee.
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VM44
His last name rhymes with "ante."
And he is fat!
Is he from Brooklyn Bethel?
Who could it be?
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treadnh2o
Dude-You are one of them!
Ha!
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TheStumbler
From reading these forums I get the impression that the Watchtower is constantly in damage control and is getting closer to a major schism or even collapse. However, the witnesses I know are as indoctrinated as ever.
I'm sure the internet is harming recruitment and if not, it will increasingly do so in the future.
but are membership numbers actually dropping? Is the internet and freedom of information having an effect?
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miseryloveselders
Thanks for your well wishes everybody! I'm getting better!
Pirata-Thanks MLE for your observations. In your talk on education, did they introduce the term "supplemental education"? They were using that term in ours to describe education beyond high school that was shorter than than "higher educations" 4+ years.
Glad you mentioned this!! Yes!! They did use the term supplemental education! I'll relay to all of you the best I can from the notes I have on that particular term. The part on education was titled Pursue Divine Education, which by the way I would love to see that outline leak online. The grand puba started off this discourse by mentioning the thoughts of a certain Joseph Addison. I couldn't locate the exact quote online, but it was along the lines of "education shapes lives." The grand puba then asked the question, "Are you teachable?" He asked this from a sculpter's point of view whether or not we were like "limestone" which is easy to mold, or are we like "granite" which is difficult to mold and shape. Psalms 25:9 was used at this point which reads, "He guides the humble in what is right, and teaches them His way." Let the stretching of scriptural texts begin. He went on to apply this to meek ones whom Jehovah teaches so that they can be useful to His organization. Here's where the term "supplemental education" was used in a positive light, and "higher education" in a negative.
Higher education is bad because it benefits the "individual." Its primary purpose is for selfish reasons. It's also shows how limited of an outlook an individual has because whatever benefits it may have(which are very limited per the WT's view) are only short term. A person with a secular outlook in life has been influenced by the Devil who "only has a short while left." On the other hand, "supplemental education" which is a conscience matter, can be acceptable in the case of individuals or families who are seeking to support Jehovah's organization. These folks are spiritual minded and are seeking education with everlasting life in view.
Here's another tidbit that deserves mentioning. Divine education is needed more than ever today. According to the grand puba, there are 105,000 congregations in need of it. So Jehovah through the faith and discreet slave has seen fit to institute various divine educational programs such as the Bible School For Single Brothers, the Bible School For Christian Couples and a couple others I didn't have enough time to get specific notes on. My notes have some gibberish from scrambling to get it all word for word, and my memory is insufficient at this time. Maybe another brother, or in the case of sisters like Ynot, maybe you can help me out. I have written here that there are schools or classes designated for Kingdom Hall construction, and for those involved with the Regional Building Committees. The grand puba stated that all of this fulfills bible prophecy in harmony with 2 Tim 3:17.
At that point, some more guilt trip questions were raised along with a demonstration and a couple interviews of "well off" brothers who could afford to pay for their adult kids to pioneer. One of the questions raised was, "Am I secretly hoping to prove Jehovah and the Faithful and Discreet Slave wrong?" The other question was, "Do I trust the words found at Matt 6:33 regarding the seeking of the Kingdom first, and all these other things being added to you?" The speaker at this point paused. He then stated in a serious tone, "Some elders don't believe that." Out of respect for those brothers interviewed and their families, I'm not going to go into details of that interview other than them owning their own businesses. There was a demonstration done where an elder discouraged another brother from encouraging his kids to seek higher education. I wish I would have taped it, because you would have thought the elder was discouraging the brother from encouraging his daughter to seek employment at a brothel. It was truly something else. I mean the elder in the demo hit the father with everything including the kitchen sink. Everything from material things dont bring happiness, to the guarantee of spiritual shipwreck and the youth in question falling away from Jehovah. It definately left an impression.
The educational talk was presented in a way so that you had no confusion about your decision regarding higher education as being either in direct conflict with Jehovah and His organization, or being fully supportive. There was nothing gray about it. That talk led into a talk titled Trust the Faithful and Discreet Slave. Thats another outline I'd love to see leaked online. My notes on that are really jumbled up because it was a talk that was all over the place, and to be honest with you.......I think that was done on purpose. It wasnt meant to be a talk that you could keep up with. To be fair to whomever did that outline, maybe that wasn't the case, and maybe I was just tired. It was a long two days at that school and I was exhausted after it was over. Mentally drained. But that talk in my opinion was a puzzle, and I felt like I was momentarily disoriented while trying to keep up with it and taking notes. It touched on everything from the Governing Body's inception in 33 CE, to its modification in 49 CE. This was compared to the 71" Legal Body of the WT vs the modern day Governing Body. Someone else is going to have to give me a hand on this one, cuz it left me in a tailspin. I felt like Mike Tyson during the 10th round of his fight with Buster Douglas. It was too much. My head is starting to hurt right now trying to relay this talk to you.
Maybe somebody can help me out on this last talk. I'll try to review these notes again and get my memory together.
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VM44
Higher education does not just benefit the individual, the benefits of higher education spread out to others around the person, even extending to the whole world in some instances.
The Watchtower's view is very, very narrow.
From the notes one can see that The Watchtower Organization is very demanding and selfish!
The world would be better off if it never existed.
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LongHairGal
MISERYLOVESELDERS: Thanks for that eye-opening report. Wow. It is pathetic really that things are so bad and they are so threatened of losing their grip on people's minds that they are resorting to what sounds to me like threats and intimidation if somebody wants college education for themselves or a family member. To me this almost sounds reminiscent of what happened in countries where communism took over! They are so threatened by an educated person that they would rather have uneducated, gullible poor peons sitting there. I am so glad I no longer associate. The mood in the congregations must be somber, to say the least. Anybody still attending who is still employed will have to RUN from all the needy people looking for handouts. The scripture: 'Shrewd is the one who has seen the calamity and proceeded to conceal himself' comes to MY mind.
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yknot
MLE:
for sharing!!!"brothers, do you know that someone posted the contents of the book on the internet!"
...............(MLE you just made my day )The education thing cause me to have conniption fits.....literally.
I am thankful this was leaked awhile back as a CO outline so as to ebb my reaction...
(discussion of above mentioned CO outline http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/161775/1/Copy-of-CO-Letter-Outline-Regarding-Education-In-Spanish )
Great analogy on IvoryTower disconnect too!
My only two suggestions to the WTS is
1)close shop, take the money and run ...... theologically speaking things are a trainwreck.
2) MORMONIZE FULLY - We already ripped off their 'Family Home Evening' and rebranded it our Family Worship Night
MLE mentioned 'the blood and the blood handout'......should anyone not have downloaded it yet here is the link to the document and discussion thread
Link: http://www.sendspace.com/file/mnf7a0
Thread: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/202967/1/KS-Blood-Handout-s-55-e-PDF
Luv, Huggles and Applause on a great thread!!!
for sharing!!!
...............(MLE you just made my day 
)