[:|?]"The sign's of the times" What ...

by plmkrzy 11 Replies latest jw friends

  • plmkrzy
    plmkrzy

    Sorry this is so long, I probably could have left out half of it. I just felt like typing today.

    The sign of the times.
    I was having a semi conversation with someone who’s very close to me on this subject after the 911 tragedies. Apparently some congregations were talking about it being the worst thing that has ever happened, thus being a sign of the times. I wasn’t even going to argue if it was or not. The look of extreme concern for my salvation left me feeling tired. But I did agree that it was the worst thing that we ever witnessed.

    More recently, another friend of mine stopped by with her field service partner to say hello and she was sharing with me some of the conversations she was having with people door to door using examples such as kids murdering each other and murdering their patents and how perverted people are all over the world and how society this day and age is so twisted that it is now openly embracing same sex marriages yadda yadda yadda.

    Her point was that we’ve have become so de-sensitized to violence and perverse things that we don’t even realize as a society just how horrible things are in the world.

    I can remember thinking that way and believing it.

    She told me in order to get people to realize just how bad society has become she likes to have her ‘prospect’ (I threw prospect in) imagine just how shocked and horrified our ancestors would be if suddenly exposed to our society.
    How homosexuals walk hand in hand in public no longer hiding in closets.

    Was she trying to impress me?

    I was in a pissy mood but I was trying not to be.
    I asked her “Does that really work?” She said “Oh yeh! It really gets them thinking about how horrible society has become.
    “Yep” I said, it sure aint like the good old days.”
    “Back then the biggest events some of our ancestors got to see, at least in the more populated and modern towns and cities, was a good old fashioned hangin’.” “ All the shops would close up, people would travel several miles to meet at the town square, children and all”. Hotel’s, all two or three of them, were full up”.

    “And their puny little ride by shootings on horseback, ha!”
    “But in all fairness they probably did kill more people percentage wise then our modern day drive bys.”

    They both just looked at me with these blank expressions.
    It seemed like a whole minute went by before we started talking again.
    I think we started talking about the weather.

    I had the feeling they both thought, “She’s lost her mind.”
    I don’t know if either one of them had the slightest idea what I was talking about. I had a big smile on my face and they looked confused.

    Well no real harm done and it was funny, the look on their faces was priceless. I am going to tuck that memory away in my ‘I need to cheer up file’.

    I do remember sincerely believing that civilized people today were far worse then civilized people were throughout history.
    It must be conditioning. If all the bad stuff that’s happening around you is the only thing your being fed then eventually that’s all you see.
    It’s no wonder that so many of us suffer from depression and anxiety.

    I mean Really! Our ancestors and ancient peoples experienced the most extreme violence!
    The kind of violence that would weaken the knees of our toughest soldiers.
    I’m not Even suggesting that our soldiers are 7ussies, but they do have a big advantage in war. They don’t have to dress up in armor and fight each other with axes and steel balls on chains with spikes on foot or even horse back.
    And war hasn’t been a way of life for us for many years.

    Not to mention the practice of human sacrifices. That is no longer socially acceptable. Not here anyway.
    And, it wasn’t That long ago that it was common for a child to be given in marriage or even traded.
    The average life span for a woman was around 30.
    In order to have lived an average of thirty years and leave a family behind they had to start pretty young and life was HARD.

    It’s very true that still in many parts of the world there is still extreme cruelty and many people are still suffering. But the difference is that these things are known and there is a great deal of effort going on to change this.
    It won’t happen over night but I believe that it will happen. Maybe another decade maybe two but at some point in our near future there probably won’t be people starving anywhere
    Not because of Devine intervention but because that is the direction we are going in.
    Ending violence, that will take Devine intervention.

    Does anyone disagree and believe that civilization today is in fact the worse? And if there is, would you please explain why you believe that? What makes this century worse then any other? I just don’t see it.

    Any comments pro or con are welcome.
    plm

  • Faithful2Jah
    Faithful2Jah

    Plm: Your observations are right on target. The "terible" conditions we see today in the world are no more terrible than other generations of people have seen in the past. The truth is that this generation, for the most part, actually sees much better conditions than most past generations have seen. For instance, due to modern medicine and agriculture our generation has seen less contagious diseases and famines than any past generation in earth's history. Proof of this can be seen by simply looking at earth's population numbers over the past two thousand years. So many people in the world used to die as a result of wars, famines and various diseases that earth's population grew very slowly and at times actually decreased during the last 2,000 years. But then about a hundred years ago it really began to grow big time. Why? Because conditions got better, not worse! A real good book that clearly shows that JWs are wrong about our generation being the worst ever in such things as war, crime, disease, earthquakes, famines and such is The Sign of the Last Days, When? coauthored by Carl Olof Jonsson, an ex JW. It is packed full of fascinating historical research which thoroughly disproves the JW 1914 "last days" generation teaching. In it he shows that Jesus was actually saying that conditions such as those just mentioned were not to be understood as signs of anything, but just everyday conditions which would exist as always up until the time of his return. I highly recommend this book.

  • plmkrzy
    plmkrzy

    Faithful2Jah

    Yeh I would like very much to read that book and the others that have been posted here recintly. Do they have to be ordered or can I find any of them ia one of the larger book stores?
    plm

  • Ivor Hope
    Ivor Hope

    Absolutely spot on plmkrzy! This is an old sales technique em[lyed by witnesses. Paint a dismal picture with all the terrible problems you can imagine then offer the solution to those problems in the Watchtower.

    The truth of the matter is that you are right. Things were always a lot worse, whatever period of history you look at. Consider the debauchery that went on in the Roman empire, the horrific events that took place in every war in history, the treatment of women in China, and so on and so forth.

    There are still problems in society and there are terrible things going on in some parts of the world, but it's not as bad as it used to be. But you don't sell as many magazines telling people that!

  • plmkrzy
    plmkrzy

    Ivor Hope
    It's all to obvious and I still have a lot of trouble digesting it all. The WTBTS was a Mnt.of strength to so many people I care deaply for and even though I always had some doubts here and there along the way I always believed them to be the only faith that had it all figured out.
    It's a very hard thing to let go uf. It's also still scary, What if there right after all and just screwed up on a few dates?
    plm[>:(]

  • 2SYN
    2SYN

    9/11 was a horrific tragedy - not only were nearly 4K people killed that day, but two of the greatest buildings on Earth were demolished. But it is by far not the worst disaster ever to happen on this planet. One of the worst disasters in all of recorded history was when the US perfomed tactical nuclear strikes against the cities of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Those acts have resounded through the years, and were a thousand times worse. People are still being affected every day by the aftermath of THAT, cancer etc. and bodily mutation from the radiation are still rife in that area.

    My deepest sympathies go out to anyone who lost family or were otherwise berieved by what happened on September 11 BTW!

    But just think how many MORE people were killed in 1947.

    <start conspiracy theory>Do you think it was a coincidence that the events in Roswell, New Mexico happened immediately after those bombs were dropped? Maybe that many people dying set off an alarm somewhere unimaginable to us.</end conspiracy theory>

  • Frenchy
    Frenchy

    The manipulation of data is an old game. I once worked for an old man who was arguing with his brother over the business. He told his brother: “Tom, figures don’t lie.” Tom replied: “No, but I know liars that figure like hell!”

    It really matters little what actually happens and what the true state of the world happens to be in at any given time for someone to make their point. When things are going well the old, ‘peace and security’ rabbit is pulled from the hat. When things are going bad then 2Tim 3:16 is evoked.

    Right now the 911 incident is being exploited by most if not all religions. The C.O. was visiting this week and he couldn’t help but slip it in his talk. No words of sympathy for those who lost their lives nor condemnation for those committing the act, but just used it for its strong emotional reaction.

    Many of the Society’s talks have been revised with a line that says something like this: “Insert some current world event that shows how violent the world is.” When is there ever a time when there is not some violence somewhere?

  • Faithful2Jah
    Faithful2Jah

    PLM: You asked, "Do they have to be ordered or can I find any of them ia one of the larger book stores?"

    They are seldom sold in bookstores. The exJW market is too small for book stores to bother with. Go to amazon.com to order them. You'll get them in the mail in just a few days and save money over what a book store would have charged you.

  • Room 215
    Room 215

    Hi all,

    It's a fact, not an opinion, that every successive generation's preachers identified their own times as the Last Days from the day Jesus uttered his prophecy. The epistles of Paul and John give evidence that the prmitvie Chrtistians expected an imminent end to the world: ``In the last days, men will be lovers of themselves, haughty, etc. ... from these turn away;'' little childer it is the final hour,'' etc., etc.

    After centuries of virtual stagation, the global human population quadrupled from 1900 to 2000, or from about 1.5 billion to more than six billion... and why? Because of the diminishing negative influences of war, pestilence and famine on population growth!

    This, of course, is not to minimize the world's current ills, many of which appear to be all but intractable. But still, to all doomsayers who deplore the present and idealize the past, I ask: would you really prefer to have lived 100, 200 or 1,000 years ago?

  • plmkrzy
    plmkrzy

    POST REPLY 1/29/02

    I exceeded my limit
    Just got back

    Thanks all for your response
    I find it interesting that no one responded with any
    reasons to believe that our times are worse then any
    other time. Oh well.

    To 2SYN in answer to your query, No I don't think there
    are that many coincidence's in the world. But then I am
    prone to be suspicious, can't help it.

    Faithful2Jah Thanks for the info, i'm going to go there and order a few books. That should keep me busy for awhile.
    Oh by the way. When I first saw your user-name I automaticlly thought
    you were a total JW and didn't agree with most of the stuff in
    this forum. So is it ok to assume you are a believer of Jah but not
    the org. of wtbts? Just curious.
    plm

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