Difficult Scriptures for Jehovah's Witnesses

by restoretherepublic 16 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  restoretherepublic

  I have been out of the JW's for about 18 yrs. Of course I'm still interested in what's happening (news, changes, etc) with the religion, but I am very far removed from it and busy living my life.

  I've been going to a non-denomination type church and this particular church's format is to go through the bible in a consecutive manner, scripture by scripture.

  In doing so, I always come across scripture and wonder how the JW mindset can explain away or mentally accept the material.

  I understand that much can be lost in the new world translation and JW's never touch upon some scriptures.

  Recently, at church, we have been going through Colossians.

  Examples:

  Colossians 2:9 - "For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity (or Godhead) lives in bodily form"

  Colossians 2: 16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.

  Colossians 2: 20 Since you died with Christ to the elemental spiritual forces of this world, why, as though you still belonged to the world, do you submit to its rules: 21 “Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!”? 22 These rules, which have to do with things that are all destined to perish with use, are based on merely human commands and teachings.

  Colossians 3: 1 Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. 2 Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things. 3 For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God. 4 When Christ, who is your [a] life, appears, then you also will appear with him in glory.
• 

  Chalam

  Welcome restoretherepublic!

  Some great examples :)

  The more I read the bible, the more I find verses which refute the WT doctrine directly.

  Or course, the bible can only be understood with the Holy Spirit. The WT deny Him at every opportunity and teach their sheep to do the same.

  Blessings in Christ,

  Stephen
• 

  GOrwell

  restoretherepublic, as far as I can tell, even if a Witness actually reads the Bible (and I have yet to find one who has, even the NT), it seems that they read it with a "veil" (as Paul wrote) over their eyes. The words are bouncing from the page to the eye, but are not passing to the brain. I don't think they genuinely "want" to know what the Bible actually says, but can you really blame them?

  What's the purpose and point of trying to determine the meaning of something in the Bible? If it doesn't match up with what the boys in Brooklyn have decided it means, you'd have some serious cognitive dissosance to resolve. It's much easier to either A) not read the Bible or B) read it like a dime-store novella and simply brush over it's meaning.
• 

  Band on the Run

  My own experience studying NT in college was that Witnesses have problems with the express language of many scriptural positions. I'd grant them leeway on matters which are extrapolitions, such as the Trinity, and matters where different Bible books differ. There are too many express, textual problems to keep believing. It gave me great freedom. The Witnesses tout the Bible so much without bothering to read it.

  A literate population will be their downfall. The Reformation swept Europe in huge tidal waves once people could secretly read the Bible in the privacy of their own homes. One might feel Roman Catholic pratice was ungodly and corrupt but reading the Bible confirmed it. Alas, I don't see people risking their lives to read their own Bibles. Even a New World translation will do it.

  I revel in the world and wordly knowledge. God created me with the capacity to reason and question. Yes, reading the Bible verse, by verse, book by book, is the best antidote. I beg people not to consult outside aids until they have sat and asked themselves what they think the scripture said. My problem is why I am so concerned after so many decades with Witness beliefs. Even for a born-in, I find the whole exposure embarassaing. My friends laugh so hard that I could ever be a Witness at any age. In the privacy of my thoughts, I remain damaged and deeply hurt. It is so hypocritical the way they scourge the Catholics and yet they are the worse parts of Catholcisim personified, absent the worldly power.
• 

  Ding

  They answer Colossians 2:9 with Colossians 3:1, saying that Christ is seated at the right hand of God, so he can't be God. Reasoning book, pp. 420-21

  Of course, this is no answer to what Colossians 2:9 says; it's a typical WT switching to a text it likes better and ignoring the one it doesn't like.

  It also ignores the whole point of the Trinity doctrine that Jesus can both be God and be with God (the Father), but it's the WTS' answer.

  As for the rest of Colossians 3:1, I believe they would say the heavenly focus applies to the 144,000, not the other sheep.

  I haven't seen them discuss Colossians 2:16 regarding various days or Romans 14:5: "One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.".

  I think they would probably say that the early Christians DIDN'T observe holidays and that they were being judged because of it.

  The exhortation therefore gets turned around to support the idea of not engaging in the observing of various special days, except for the Memorial.

  The key to it all is that JWs don't need much scriptural support for their views because once they accept that the FDS organization speaks for Jehovah, it doesn't matter what the Bible really says; what matters is what the WTS says it means.
• 

  hasmat

  "once they accept that the FDS organization speaks for Jehovah, it doesn't matter what the Bible really says; what matters is what the WTS says it means."

  BINGO!

  2 Corinthians 3:16
  "But whensoever it shall turn to the Lord, the veil is taken away"

  The JW are still following men even though they deny it, that is why the veil remains. If only they would follow Christ and not the GB self anointed who make over 1000 rules that they themselves cannot even follow. Who gave them authority to add to God's word anyway?
• 

  Chalam

  Amen hasmat and welcome!

  Romans 10:9 (New International Version, ©2010)

  9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

  Blessings in Christ,

  Stephen
• 

  stapler99

  What about 1 Samuel 19:9-10?

  But an evil spirit from the LORD came on Saul as he was sitting in his house with his spear in his hand. While David was playing the lyre, Saul tried to pin him to the wall with his spear, but David eluded him as Saul drove the spear into the wall. That night David made good his escape.

  Why would God induce Saul to commit bad acts by sending an evil spirit?

  Another one which comes to mind are the various Scriptures which say that Judas Iscariot was predestined to betray Jesus.
• 

  designs

  The Christians get giddy, its really hilarious
• 

  designs

  Let's look at the BS- 'The Bible can only be understood with the Holy Spirit' 'You must be Born Again' 'you can only understand the Bible with the help of the FDS' 'turn to the Lord and the veil is taken away' all has a familiar ring to it, Si.

  Now let's look at a common teaching in the Synagogues - 'Love your neighbor and you have fulfilled the whole Torah'. Anyone not understand what to do, did anyone need the Special Green Hornet Decoder Ring to figure it out.

  Be good, love your neighbor, that's it.