Is there a serious weakness in the Watchtower Society's legal position?

by DT 12 Replies latest jw friends

  • DT
    DT

    The Watchtower Society is good at intimidation. It uses fear to maintain control of it's members, including fear of being destroyed at Armageddon and fear of shunning and being rejected by family and friends. They even try to intimidate former members by threatening them with lawsuits over copyright issues, as an example. Very few people are willing or able to endure a drown out legal struggle with the Watchtower Society, regardless of the legal merits of the case or chances of eventual victory.

    Could this situation be concealing a profound weakness in the Watchtower Society's legal position? I should disclose that I'm not a lawyer and I'm not qualified to give legal advice. I'm just speculating about possible situations that could cause serious problems for the Watchtower Society.

    I'll try to make my point by discussing a hypothetical scenario in the United States. An elder posts the new elders manual online. He posts it on his own website and doesn't even try to hide the fact that he is responsible for distributing that copyrighted work. He is soon disfellowshipped and threatened with legal action if he doesn't stop distributing that book.

    It would be crazy for that elder to persist in distributing an entire copyrighted book. The law is pretty clear on that being copyright infringement. Suppose, for whatever reason (perhaps he has a terminal illness), he refuses to back down. The Watchtower Society sues him, while trying to avoid publicity for their secret elder's manual.

    The disfellowshipped elder then alerts the media about this case and uses a novel legal defense. He says that this is an internal religious dispute and claims the court has no constitutional right to interfere. He points to something in the Watchtower literature to support the idea that he has a right and responsibility to distribute this information. (It probably doesn't matter if his reasons are compelling because, in theory, this would be internal religious matter that the courts couldn't investigate.)

    This may be a clear case of copyright infringement, but it's a moot point if the courts are unable to interfere. The Watchtower Society has used this same defense to avoid having the courts investigate lawsuits against them where there may be clear violations of the law in terms of slander, medical liability, etc.

    If this legal defense worked, it would be a major public embarrassment for the Watchtower Society. Perhaps they would appeal and argue that don't have religious freedom if they can't use the courts to enforce their legal rights under copyright law. They would have a point, although they would likely downplay that fact that many of those who have tried to sue them could make a similar argument.

    If that legal defense failed (which I think would be likely), then it could be even more problematic for the Watchtower Society. Suppose that disfellowshipped elder turned right around and sued the Watchtower Society for damages related to his disfellowshipping (perhaps loss of business and damage to his reputation, etc.) I'm sure the Watchtower Society would use the same legal defense that they argued against during the first lawsuit. It would be a hard sell since they are both dealing with the same general situation.

    If the courts were consistent and decided that there were compelling reasons to hear both cases, then this could be a precedent that would open a floodgate of lawsuits concerning enforced shunning, deaths from their blood policies and so forth.

    The Watchtower Society likes to have their cake and eat it too. They have no problem fighting for their rights while trampling on the rights of others and seeking immunity from lawsuits under the pretense of religious freedom. They have done a good job of maintaining this unfair advantage so far, but I wonder if they will someday have a rude awakening.

    What do you think?

  • LV101
    LV101

    I'M SO sick of their freedom and tax free status. If I have to hear the lawyer tell me one more time that the courts don't want to touch religious matters with ten foot polls because NO ONE IS FORCED TO JOIN, BE A MEMBER, not take a transfusion and they don't hold a gun to your head making you attend, join, etc., and you have the right to walk away. yeah, WRONG!!! I don't care what the hay this country was founded on but this is a BIGGEE being founded on freedom of religion (GAG ME) --- they need to protect the people AND THEY WON'T when it comes to this evil. there has to be a loophole that adherents are deceived before joining or something.

    LV101

  • dssynergy
    dssynergy

    It is interesting to me that to sue a fellow christian is a disfellowshipping offense, but for the WT to sue a disfellowshipped person for whatever legal reasons is permissible. Strikes me as sort of absurd.

    DS

  • designs
    designs

    Due to Tax Revenue shortages more Governments will end the tax free status of Religions then most will shut their doors the Watchtower included.

  • jwfacts
    jwfacts

    Interesting concept DT.

    As LV101 says, the legal system does not like to get involved in religious issues. It is hypocritical that the Watchtower avoids legal action by pleading Ecclesiastical Privilege, yet prides itself on using the legal system to the full to get its own way.

    I used the Australian Privacy Commission to get my Watchtower personal files from Bethel. Bethel attempted to prevent giving me the files on the basis that their income does not constitute "turnover", because it is made up of donations. Fortunately reason prevailed and the Privacy Commission disallowed the Watchtower's reasoning.

    I am sure that in time religion will be less able to hide behind "faith" as a reason to avoid legal accountability.

  • Juan Viejo2
    Juan Viejo2

    This situation is exactly what the former elders of the Menlo Park congregation are facing. The Watchtower's representatives can remove them, take over their Kingdom Hall, defame them, falsely accuse them of mishandling KH finances, etc. The Watchtower is essentially stealing the Kingdom Hall. But as the brothers there are finding out, the WT seems to have the advantage because of (1) its seemingly limitless financial resources, (2) its inhouse legal department, and (3) the courts prefer to wash their hands of the dispute because they are afraid that any decisions might fall under the Constitutional ban against not only the abridgment of individuals' rights to religious belief, but also for making laws regulating how religions handle their members.

    Advantage Watchtower - unfortunately.

    Someday they will slip up and reveal themselves for what they really are: A publishing company running a money-making scam while hiding behind the cloak of religious freedoms and the tax-free laws. They are no different than Jim and Tammy, or Jimmy Swaggart, or Reverend Ike, or Brother Devine, or the "farting TV evangelist" of Dallas, Texas. They are all the same - but the courts don't have the courage or support to really deal with them.

    Again, advantage Watchtower.

    JV

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    Laws of general applicability apply to religions without concern for the First Amendment. Neutral permit requirements, building codes, bigamy. The law can't be targeted to the religion. Personally, I don't see how a straight forward copyright infringement case would run afoul of the First Amendment. Just a thought. Legal advice needs legal research and a very detailed understanding of the factual pattern. A change in facts may change the results.

    wikipedia uses fair use resources. It might be a template to consult to get around copyright infringement issues. My university photocopied compilations of chapters and articles from copyrighted books. My law prof scoffed at copyright laws. They mocked who would enforce their copyright rights against a non-profit teaching institution. A few years later, I open my door to get my New York Times. The lead headline was that my university was being sued for megamillion dollars for copyright infringement.

    I've read that religious scholars have trouble obtaining the older books b/c the Society destroyed them. Aren't their very words powerful enough to stop a heresy?

  • LV101
    LV101

    DESIGNS -- I PRAY YOU ARE RIGHT!!! MAYBE the country needs a committee to represent the country to protect people from these crooks, BUT I GUESS THAT ISN'T ALLOWED BECAUSE THEY HAVE FREEDOM to harm the innocent. i'm sure if this were possible - freeminds, and many of the scholars on board here would have done so w/all the knowledge and qualifications they have.

    LV101

  • Mad Sweeney
    Mad Sweeney

    All it takes is a progressive reading of the constitution and a progressive court system. The USA has neither at the moment.

    Freedom of religion should mean freedom of INDIVIDUALS to worship as they choose, as long as such worship doesn't violate civil rights of either members or non-members. There should be no special protection for religious organizations, in my opinion. They should operate just like any other business. If they make enough money to stay open, then fine, but if they break any laws, shut them down as you would any other business. They should be taxed just like any other business.

  • ziddina
    ziddina
    "I've read that religious scholars have trouble obtaining the older books b/c the Society destroyed them. ..."

    Actually, older Watchtower Bible and Tract Society publications - and International Bible Students literature - are fairly easy to obtain..

    I've been rebuilding my library in the past few days...

    It's only taken a few hours on the Internet to come up with a decent cross-sampling of older Bible Students/JW literature.

    Most of the books are pretty cheap, too... Primarily, the ones that are quite pricey are the ones associated with the "PhotoDrama of Creation" and a few other obscure titles from the earliest Russell years...

    Otherwise, you'll only spend around $1 - $8 per older book - though I have spent a twenty or two on a few books...

    Zid

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