And P.S - The NT is not bipolar. It is not understandable to the person reading it without God. People that mock the Bible are showing how much they DON'T understand it. And yet they will fight it and say that they understand it completely. It really is sad.
Only the Governing Body is the FDS
by Listener 45 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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stuckinamovement
I have had some limited success showing the Insight on the scriptures article to some. The article's first few sentences come right out and say that it is an illustration that Jesus used. Of course later on in the article they do some scriptural contortions and come to the conclusion that it is a prophetic class.
Not a prophecy, but an illustration! In the words of the Society themselves.
SIAM
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Mad Sweeney
You're wrong in your post above, Dan.
There are clearly two (or more) sects of Christianity under development in the first century. The Pauline view is the one that for the most part has won out, as the currently approved Bible canon and the religions that use it demonstrate.
The New Testament is not some vague and incomprehensible document, Dan. It is pretty simple reading that ANYone with a rudimentary education can understand clearly. It is an insult to our intelligence to imply that it is somehow complex to the point where it takes supernatural intervention to "get it."
This isn't "mocking" the Bible. It is describing it rationally and factually based on evidence. But we've all been through this before. You're entitled to believe in your own version of the supernatural but for the sake of civil and respectful conversation please respect the beliefs and non-beliefs of others, which are just as well-founded as your own.
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gutted
As per Franklins thought, I have read quotes from the Watchtower that point to the fact that the GB/F&DS don't have any special revelations through holy spirit... does anyone have a citation handy?
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brotherdan
I know about the history of Christianity. I'm saying that the BIBLE is not bipolar. There will always be those that twist the Bible to their own ends. The gnostic cults of the early church are examples of this. But they are easily proven to be wrong. There are "cults" of Christianity today. But there is an actual body of Christ. JWs don't belong to it along with many other cults.
Also, it is true that the gospel is simple. But there are complex issues involved as well. Hebrews is a very complex book. "Getting" the gospel and having faith in it are 2 very different things. A mere understanding of what the NT says does not take supernatural help. But belief and faith are gifts that God gives. If you don't have faith in it, then you have not recieved the gift. That's not meant to sound insulting. It's just a fact that is brought out in the NT.
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Terry
Jesus is the mediator between God and man.
Jehovah's Witnesses have wedged in a mediator between the mediator and the rest of us! A mediator-mediator!
They've created a hybrid class which is a leftover from the days of Dispensationalism (pretty much abandoned gradually since the 1960's)
(Remember the Greater Moses, the Greater Elijah, etc.?)
This "class" business is like tonsils or an appendix; vestigial and useless while having served some purpose way back when.
The "other sheep" and the "faithful and discreet slave" were taught to us as CLASSes distinct from each other. One earthly and the other heavenly.
Now, a subdivision has been jury-rigged in the heavenly class which bifurcates this way:
1.Governing Body (fds)
and
2. regular, non-input, shut-up-and-listen-to-the-GB fds.
What a hierarchy they have!
Jehovah
Jesus
Governing Body (fds)
non-governing (fds)
other sheep
Somebody has been studying the Catholic Church and copying!
The Governing Body is a corporate Pope.
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moshe
The Governing Body is a corporate Pope.
Well said Terry! (and welcome back to the fray elderlite)
At least with the Pope and the Cardinals, the RCC laity understand the mechanism by which the Church selects it's leaders.
I am not sure, if the WT knows is heading for the rocks with this: 'the GB is the only boss over JWs', dogma - they seem to be saying that the GB can run the show without any input from outside of Bethel, which is a departure from the past unsubstantiated explanation they have always given- that the F&DS provides the "meat in due season" (under spirit direction) and the GB dispenses it to the other sheep JWs. Do we remember what happened to Moses when he failed just one time to give the glory to God for a miracle? Perhaps the JWs who lurk here do read and ponder on what we discuss- perhaps they have started to ask- "where are the F&DS really to be found?"- and if nobody has ever seen a real live F&DS in person, then they are no more real that one of these critters-----
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Ding
Do JWs really care about this?
To them, the GB speaks for Jehovah.
This FDS class stuff has always been mysterious anyway...
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agonus
Misery:
I love you.
Everything is going to be OK.
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moshe
A recent topic here started out with this conversation-
My wife and I had stopped going to meetings in April; in December of that year we travelled interstate and stayed with the Witness couple who had "brought me into the truth". We had already told them we'd quit meetings and there was a certain tension in the air for the first couple of days until Sunday morning, when, over a breakfast that eventually lasted several hours, they began to interrogate us about WHY we had left. Had we been stumbled? It's not about the people, you know! Well, we said, that's our private decision. We left, we're not going back, but we'd rather not discuss our reasons.
It was a session I described in my diary as the Breakfast Grill. They told me there was a Watchtower that very day was addressed at our very situation, about how Jesus cares for his lost sheep, and they assured me that when we returned to Melbourne, we would surely have contact from our old congregation. Stirred up by the timely article, those loving, concerned brothers would definitiely inquire after our spiritual wellbeing. If he was a gambling man, he'd put money on it. Rubbish, I told them. They'll attend the Watchtower study, answer the questions and give us no thought at all. It's a Watchtower study, just words on a page. That's the way it is. I didn't want them to visit in any case: we'd made a definite decision to leave, based on very firm grounds.
And so on they went, hour after hour, tears in their eyes as they grieved for our loss. OUR loss! But then there was curious question.
He looked my wife in the eye and asked her,
"Do you believe Jehovah is using the faithful and discreet slave as his organisation on earth?"
My wife paused. How the hell do you answer that question? The answer, of course, was , No, absolutely not. I jumped in and deflected and quickly the question was forgotten.
But I've never forgotten that question. Why did he ask it? It's a loaded question, a bit like a Witness being asked by a householder, "Do you accept the divinity of Christ, yes or no?" Well, there's a trap, because it depends on your definition.
His question assumes several things:
1. God has an organization (which is an interpretation peculiar to the Witnesses).
2. If he does have one, it is the Watch Tower Society. (Please God, no!)
3. The faithful and discreet slave is more than just a figure in a parable: it is a "class" of Christians as Russell decided. (Again, among all religions, only the Witnesses have decided that parabolic figure represents a group of Christians who would be represented in the last days).
4. If the Watch Tower Society is indeed God's organization, the faithful and discreet slave "class" actually plays a role. (There is no evidence that those 11,200 self-professed anointed scattered throughout the globe play any role in the formation of doctrine or direction of the beliefs or activities of Witnesses. As Ray Franz pointed out, they mean nothing, zilch, to the Governing Body).------
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It appears that you could answer that loaded question with an honest, NO, today! The WT says the GB doesn't need the F&DS anymore!!!!!!
