Like Black Sheep stated ask about 607BC and the kings. Basically if 607BC is wrong then 1914 is wrong and FDS wasn't chosen in 1919. You should read Gentile Times Reconsidered by Carl Olof Jonnson before you ask that question. It shows that GB are a fraud and it helps honest people to realize that wts isn't God's org. If you decide to DA yourself use the info on this topic as it might plant some seeds with those who read it. Freeing someone from a cult is always a bonus. BTW Welcome.
Don't know how to leave: FADE or DA letter?
by porfiada 22 Replies latest watchtower bible
-
-
cameo-d
Unless you officially DA, the baptism and your confession that it's Jah's org will bind you and give them legal authority over you. Write the DA letter!
And yes, they do have legal authority. They are a sovereign entity and that is the only reason there is a "separation" of church and state: each respect the other's sovereignty. That's why you see so many charlatans like Benny Hanna and all those other quacks and no one will stop the lies.
-
Juan Viejo2
Cameo,
A religion has no legal authority over anyone, not even its own members. Where did you get such an idea?
Are you saying that the Watchtower Society can take you to court and say, "Hey, this person was baptized and took the two question oath in 2003 at the convention in Branson, Missouri. Therefore we have sovereignty over this person."
Yeah, right. I'd love to see that case on Court-TV. They only have legal authority as a corporation, but even the Bethel boys and girls can tell them to go pound sand and walk out the door. Is the WT going to sue them for failure to fulfill an employment contract. For what? Less than $100 per month?
Benny Hinn is a charlatan. Jan and Paul Crouch are charlatans. They are all charlatans! They get away with it because they do hide behind the separation of church and state in the USA. But hey, they got Swaggart. They got the Bakkers. They can get anyone they want if there is enough evidence that they are cooking the books.
If the Watchtower continues to do what they are doing now - or if they go over the line and intimidate some elderly person into passing their wealth to the WT and leaving their kids out of the will, they will get caught and pay the price.
If the government can send ex-congressmen and ex-senators to jail (Tom DeLay, for example), they can break the back of a religious organization if they really want to. The US government has so much on its plate right now, they simply do not have the resources. But the day may come...
-
Black Sheep
You left me intrigued about the kings of neobabylon empire. Is it just something to pest them with or it is to make a point about some teachings of the WTS? Please let me know what do have in mind....
There is not much you can do about your profile until the forum upgrades its software.
It nice to see another Kiwi here. There are bugger all of of us here.
The primary doctrine of the Watchtower is that Jesus selected them in 1919 to be God's sole channel of communication to mankind in our day.
All other doctrine is supported by that one even though they want to give you the impression that they get their doctrines from the Bible. Keep asking any Dub how to support any doctrine long enough and you will eventually end up at the primary doctrine. For it to be true, Jerusalem has to have fallen in 607 BC.
What you don't know about the Neo-Babylonian Empire is that even the Watchtower publishes the data to prove that their own calculation to arrive at 607 BC for the fall of Jerusalem is in error.
Try answering my question yourself. Draw up a piece of paper with all of the dates from 539 to 625 BC and then use whatever reliable resources you can find to identify which king was reigning in each year.
I could tell you the answer .... I could link you to a thread on this site .... but it is better if you have a go yourself so that you 'get it'.
Get yourself a WTCD. You can even look up the lengths of the reigns of the kings on that and arrive at the correct answer. If you don't have one, PM me and I'll sort something out.
I'm in the BOP
Cheers
Chris
-
wobble
Please do as Chris (BS) says, or something similar, you may only have one opportunity to maybe wake someone else up, then another Kiwi or two may join us !
It is the only way to leave with dignity too, give them a question they cannot answer.
They try to take away your dignity, just to make the cult still look good in the eyes of remaining members, do not let them do that to you.
Good luck !
-
AudeSapere
Or... Maybe you want to 'Go Out with a Bang' as did our old pal LittleToe:
http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/20680/1/Going-out-with-a-bang
I think he said that if he had it to do over again he would not have done that, but it's a good read and so gutsy and creative. Don't know if the audio link still works but you may want to read that thread before making your decision.
-Aude.
-
DagothUr
Burn your blood directive! After that, in your situation, it's really not that important if you fade to black or DA.
-
maksym
Hi, Porfiada,
I signed up on this forum just to tell you a few things. I have been "out" for more than five years and have never taken any action to make myself known to the elders or make a "scene" with my family. I have recently been baptised and made a Christian in another church.
The point I want to make and I think it is very pertinent to all former witnesses it this....While we were "in" the organisation we assumed or believed they had authoriy over us. In doing so we upheld their values and rules for this relgion. But after leaving many have held to those rules without even knowing about it.
Imagine for example if you had a former employer that said if you leave you must do or say certain things in order to justify your actions of leaving the job. Most people would just say, " get lost", I'm a free person and I don't answer to you. Does that make sense.
In the same context former watchtower member should treat their religion the same. Their is no obligation on your part to do anything the say if you leave. You are not under contract in any way legally. It is a belief system, nothing more. When you stop believing you stop doing!
To put a dissident attitude toward them you should be strong and do NOTHING! Because if you believe they are false then they don't deserve the respect of anything period.
I have faded and although they can call me by any name I refuse to be labeled. I am not an apostate. I am not disfellowshiped. I am not dissacciated or otherwise. Nor will I ever be. Nor will anybody on this forum be as well.
That is if you stop saying that they have any authority over you.
Here is the kicker. When an jehovah's witness approaches me and asked me if I have been disfellowshipped, I say NO. Why, not that I want to lie but because I don't recognize their authority over me OUTSIDE their system. I will talk with the person. It gives me an opportunity to witness the true Gospel with them.
Just as I don't recognise my former employers labels on me I also don't recognise my former religions labels on me.
My best advice is to fade away and not pervert yourself into their system. You will lose your dignity and self respect. By acknowedging that you go along with their judicial system you also agree to the consequencing and accept the outcome.
Do nothing! Don't accept them! It's the ultimate slap in the face for them. They are nothing but men parading as authority figures.
The elders are just men. The governing body men are just men. They and there policies mean nothing.
If any of your family or friends asks you what happened just say nothing.
I am free and no longer a JW. Are you dissacciated or disfellowshipped. The answer...No. I am just not a watchtower member anymore.
End of story.
May peace be to you and God bless you
Maksym
-
whathappened
I like the idea that they have no authority over me. I don't have to play by Watchtower rules anymore. I will not meet with the elders nor write a letter. Why should I give them the time of day. They can do their own research and find out what BS they are going along with. I just took the excellent suggestion to destroy my blood card. That's the last thing I want is the Hospital Liason coming to visit me when I don't feel good in the hospital. Excellent suggestions.
-
AudeSapere
What Happened wrote: That's the last thing I want is the Hospital Liason coming to visit me when I don't feel good in the hospital.
If you have been admitted to a hospital in the past and told them you were a JW, contact the hospital as well and tell them to change that info. If your hospital or doctor has and AMD (Advance Medical Directive) on file for you, rescind it not.
I did not do this and was hospitalized for emergency treatment. At registration in the ER I told them to remove JW from my record. When nurses came to my bed to review info, they said "JW?", I said NOPE. It took 3 tries while in the hospital and then when I returned a week or two later, it STILL showed JW.
Not only that, but I had and AMD on file and it's a bitch to try and change that stuff when you are already in their care.
And, yes, I did indeed get an unexpected visit from a friendly elder whom I had never met.
Here is the link to my story:
BTW - Porfida, Maksym and What Happened - Welcome to JWN! It's nice to have you join us. And Maksym - nice that you decided to chime in~!!
-Aude.
PS: Porfida - sorry for the brief hijack. What Happened's concern *can* happen. It did to me!