How Many JWs Fully Buy Into the WT Party Line?

by Room 215 17 Replies latest jw friends

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  Room 215

  Hi all,

  For those of us with years of acquaintance with the WT and its teachings, it's clear that full acceptance of the 1914 date as the establishment of God's Kingdom in the heavens is a non-negotiable condition of remaining in good standing in the organization. Many of us know people who've been booted out just for expressing misgivings, lety alone outright denying this teaching. Almost as central, and as non-negotiable, is the teaching that only baptised JWs can expect to survive the Big A.
  
  Yet, not infrequently, in informal, often social settings, I've heard long-time JWs, even many holding responsible positions in the organization say things like ``dates aren't really the central issue, worshipping Jehovah is," or ``we should avoid judgiung people and leave that to God. We shouldn't be like Jonah and get angry if God is more merciful than we currently give Him credit.''

  Of course, none of these guys would ever admit to such opinions from the podium or if called on the carpet to account for them in front of a judicial committee.
  
  So my question is: have any of you perceived that there's a sizeable segment of the JW rank and file that quietly withhold unequivocal acceptance of these bedrock doctrines, opting instead to ``wait and see?'
• 

  badwillie

  While I was a JW I personally had the "wait and see" approach to things that seemed a little too sketchy to fully believe.
  I talked to a JW recently who said he did not believe the society has ever said in print that only JW's would survive the big A. So for some there is this sort of denial going on.
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  Andyman

  I think lots of things have changed over the years as to what they do and don't believe, but like you said they keep it very hush hush and don't let anyone else know what they think for "fear" of being caught and going before the elders.

  I too remember the JW's who clearly knew that if you were not a babtized JW, active of course, and the big "A" came you were pretty much dead meat. When I left several JW's told me that not only would I die, but my whole family, wife and kids.

  Now on boards you hear JW's say that they don't judge that is for Jehovah to do. Of course some of this talk is just for the ears of the non-JW's who they think they are fooling, but some of them really do believe that it is up to God to decide who lives and who dies.

  As for the 1914 teaching, well again I think there are many JW's who don't buy it, but refuse to admit it because of fear. Nobody wants to lose their family and friends and many stay JW's for reason. Of course if they were really your friends, well they wouldn't dump you now would they?

  I have seen some huge change in JW's in my area. I used to hear "we can wait until the new system" so much when talking about health problems, new homes, marriage, children, etc. Now I see JW's investing heavy into the stock market, I see them spending thousands of dollars on their health, new homes are being built, kids are going to college and trade schools, more babies are being born, young ones are getting married instead of "waiting" for the new system. MONEY is a big issue now and saving is even bigger. Now do you think these people are really buying all that JW propoganda or are they just giving lip service and doing their own thing to make sure they aren't going to be left out in the cold if the "end" isn't just around the corner?

  Of course there are others I see that still buy all the "cliams" and lies and have nothing and will have nothing the rest of thier lives. They have credit cards maxed out, bad credit, live from day to day praying that the end will come "soon"! Those are the ones I feel sorry for. They have put all their hope in a manmade organization and they have no future except the one the society paints for them.

  I really wonder how many JW's would leave if they did away with the "shunning" policy and they could leave and still associate with friends and family?

  Take care.

  Andyman:
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  Gopher

  215,

  This is clearly an example of cognitive dissonance -- outwardly believing one thing while inwardly believing another. The inward beliefs are coming out almost by accident, when such things are said as

  "dates aren't really the central issue, worshipping Jehovah is," or ``we should avoid judgiung people and leave that to God. We shouldn't be like Jonah and get angry if God is more merciful than we currently give Him credit.''

  I remember an elder saying that it is okay to have your own private thoughts on matters, but that if they conflict with the organization's view, it would be best to keep them to oneself. So submerge those thoughts!

  And so it goes.

  GopherWhy shouldn't truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense.
  Mark Twain (1835-1910)
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  gem

  I agree - the Witnesses are trying to convince themselves. Many JWs have been in the org for 30, 40 years and may know nothing else. Even if they see inconsistencies in WT teachings, it must be v. difficult to leave and accept that their long-time beliefs were wrong. So, they convince that the WT teachings are true: "You never know - it may be right! Let's wait and see."

  This is one reason why JWs are unhappy - they are trying to convince themselves of something which is wrong and inconsistent.
• 

  JT

  andyman;;

  I used to hear "we can wait until the new system" so much when talking about health problems, new homes, marriage, children, etc. Now I see JW's investing heavy into the stock market, I see them spending thousands of dollars on their health, new homes are being built, kids are going to college and trade schools, more babies are being born, young ones are getting married instead of "waiting" for the new system. MONEY is a big issue now and saving is even bigger. Now do you think these people are really buying all that JW propoganda or are they just giving lip service and doing their own thing to make sure they aren't going to be left out in the cold if the "end" isn't just around the corner?
  ***********

  great post so true- so true

  when i was coming up i recall my mom got dogged for buying a house with a 30yr mortage- i recall all the comments and talks with ref to my family cause we were the only ones who had a home built, my dad was not a jw and didn't buy into the "Each under his figtree line"

  they would say some are trying to carve a nich into this old system

  BRO DOES IT MAKE SENSE TO SIGN UP FOR A 30 YEAR LOAN
  WHAT DOES IT SAY ABOUT US- do we really believe the end IS AROUND THE CONNER and on and on

  great post my man
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  Room 215

  Andyman, Gem, Gopher.

  Thanks for the feedback. Andyman, you're quite right about JWs changing their minds about college, postponing marriage, childbearing, or about debunking pension plans, life insurance, etc.

  In fact, I began a thread some time ago on this subject, entitled ``JWs: Hedging Their Bets?'' It certainly seems like it's happening.
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  2SYN

  Well I don't actually recall any of that, but as far as I remember, JWs invested and bought houses in the same way as normal people. I wasn't in the Troof for long enough to really see anything changing like that, although there were always the admonishments of 'The End Is Just Around The Corner' which stopped striking dread into me about a year b4 I left!
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  openminded

  Yea, I ask my wife how she can have a relationship with a person who is now "worldly" and slated to die by Gods hand at any moment. I can almost see her mental light-swith go off and she basically just ignores me or will say something like, "I am not the judge". I think her solution is just not to think about it(cognitive D at its best). But for me, its a problem. She is running all over town saving peoples lives while I sit at home(actually Im rarely home-more than likely at the gym or studying) and await God's vultures. Deep down I think she must know it bologna but her whole family and life are Jdub and its bocome part of her persona. -OM
• 

  cynicus

  Just to prove Room's point:

  *** w86 4/1 31 Questions From Readers ***
  Approved association with Jehovah’s Witnesses requires accepting the entire range of the true teachings of the Bible, including those Scriptural beliefs that are unique to Jehovah’s Witnesses. What do such beliefs include?

  That the great issue before humankind is the rightfulness of Jehovah’s sovereignty, which is why he has allowed wickedness so long. (Ezekiel 25:17) That Jesus Christ had a prehuman existence and is subordinate to his heavenly Father. (John 14:28) That there is a “faithful and discreet slave” upon earth today ‘entrusted with all of Jesus’ earthly interests,’ which slave is associated with the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses. (Matthew 24:45-47) That 1914 marked the end of the Gentile Times and the establishment of the Kingdom of God in the heavens, as well as the time for Christ’s foretold presence. (Luke 21:7-24; Revelation 11:15–12:10) That only 144,000 Christians will receive the heavenly reward. (Revelation 14:1, 3) That Armageddon, referring to the battle of the great day of God the Almighty, is near. (Revelation 16:14, 16; 19:11-21) That it will be followed by Christ’s Millennial Reign, which will restore an earth-wide paradise. That the first to enjoy it will be the present “great crowd” of Jesus’ “other sheep.”—John 10:16; Revelation 7:9-17; 21:3, 4.

  I was looking for this reference anyway, and this thread made me find it.

  ---
  Every absurdity has a champion to defend it.