by pirata 42 Replies latest watchtower bible
aqwsed: You might want to shorten up your posts.
Mark Twain wrote a friend an overly long and detailed letter and finished it by saying, "Sorry I wrote such a long letter. I didn't have time to write a short one."
Most people won't read all of that. It's better to say what you want to say in shorter posts. Just a word of advice.
Well...i guess that was short...
Isaiah 43:
43 But now thus says the Lord ,
he who created you, O Jacob,
he who formed you, O Israel:
Do not fear, for I have redeemed you;
I have called you by name, you are mine.
2 When you pass through the waters, I will be with you;
and through the rivers, they shall not overwhelm you;
when you walk through fire you shall not be burned,
and the flame shall not consume you.
3 For I am the Lord your God,
the Holy One of Israel, your Savior.
I give Egypt as your ransom,
Ethiopia a and Seba in exchange for you.
4 Because you are precious in my sight,
and honored, and I love you,
I give people in return for you,
nations in exchange for your life.
5 Do not fear, for I am with you;
I will bring your offspring from the east,
and from the west I will gather you;
6 I will say to the north, “Give them up,”
and to the south, “Do not withhold;
bring my sons from far away
and my daughters from the end of the earth—
7 everyone who is called by my name,
whom I created for my glory,
whom I formed and made.”
8 Bring forth the people who are blind, yet have eyes,
who are deaf, yet have ears!
9 Let all the nations gather together,
and let the peoples assemble.
Who among them declared this,
and foretold to us the former things?
Let them bring their witnesses to justify them,
and let them hear and say, “It is true.”
10 You are my witnesses, says the Lord ,
and my servant whom I have chosen,
so that you may know and believe me
and understand that I am he.
Before me no god was formed,
nor shall there be any after me.
11 I, I am the Lord ,
and besides me there is no savior.
12 I declared and saved and proclaimed,
when there was no strange god among you;
and you are my witnesses, says the Lord .
13 I am God, and also henceforth I am He;
there is no one who can deliver from my hand;
I work and who can hinder it?
14 Thus says the Lord ,
your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel:
For your sake I will send to Babylon
and break down all the bars,
and the shouting of the Chaldeans will be turned to lamentation. b
15 I am the Lord , your Holy One,
the Creator of Israel, your King.
16 Thus says the Lord ,
who makes a way in the sea,
a path in the mighty waters,
17 who brings out chariot and horse,
army and warrior;
they lie down, they cannot rise,
they are extinguished, quenched like a wick:
18 Do not remember the former things,
or consider the things of old.
19 I am about to do a new thing;
now it springs forth, do you not perceive it?
I will make a way in the wilderness
and rivers in the desert.
20 The wild animals will honor me,
the jackals and the ostriches;
for I give water in the wilderness,
rivers in the desert,
to give drink to my chosen people,
21 the people whom I formed for myself
so that they might declare my praise.
22 Yet you did not call upon me, O Jacob;
but you have been weary of me, O Israel!
23 You have not brought me your sheep for burnt offerings,
or honored me with your sacrifices.
I have not burdened you with offerings,
or wearied you with frankincense.
24 You have not bought me sweet cane with money,
or satisfied me with the fat of your sacrifices.
But you have burdened me with your sins;
you have wearied me with your iniquities.
25 I, I am He
who blots out your transgressions for my own sake,
and I will not remember your sins.
26 Accuse me, let us go to trial;
set forth your case, so that you may be proved right.
27 Your first ancestor sinned,
and your interpreters transgressed against me.
28 Therefore I profaned the princes of the sanctuary,
I delivered Jacob to utter destruction,
and Israel to reviling.
Surely there is soemthing wrong here, how can a people that don't need to be saved, like the Jews, Have a God that is their saviour ?????
I'm still hanging on Stephen. I was just telling Aussie that I'm on 3rd or 4th wind at the moment. You guys are a big help.
I can see your feet clearly from the UK. They are standing firmly on the Rock :)
Blessings in Christ,
Stephen
If you know John 20:28 and its surrounding text well enough, you should be able to use your JW's knowledge of the beliefs of Thomas and the era to get them to admit that Jesus is Jehovah or pop a foofoo valve trying to avoid saying it.
Their automated response to any scripture they don't like is to divert your attention to another one that they feel contradicts your one. They are used to getting away with it, so throw them off guard by not getting suckered into the diversion.
You have to maintain control of the topic and tell them you will discuss their scripture AFTER you have finished discussing John 20:28 with them.
If their scripture truly does prove that Jesus is not Jehovah and John 20:28 proves that he is, then there is contradiction in the Bible.
Trick#2 for a JW is to give their prey a Modalist doctrine to defend. If their prey takes the bait, they try to defend a doctrine that very few Xtian churches teach. My mother was born CofE, converted to JW 70 years ago, and still doesn't know who God is according to the church she apostasized from. Most JWs only understand the Trinity from the Modalist point of view, so if you want to give them a fright, understand what the doctrine of the Trinity really is, and make them debate that.
Trinitarians and JWs can't both be right, but they can both be wrong.
Cheers
Chris
The best way to figure out how church doctrines came into existence is to seriously investigate the earliest Christians and find out what they were all about. If Jesus really did walk this earth, the only way his spectacular escapades could have gone unnoticed by all the historians of the first century is if his teachings were private and low key. That would mean to me that it no longer matters if the stories are literal, and that it is quite sensible when researchers claim that the earliest Christians were gnostics.
That's why this is very interesting:
On the Gnostic Trinity, by James M. West
http://www.aeonbytegnosticradio.com/2010/03/on-gnostic-trinity.html
Seeing people defend their favorite sacred cow is fun, like watching a Nun march in circles and fondle her Rosary Beads
Oh God let it be true.....
