Thank you lion Cask- I would also add the recent study that found JW women are 6x more likely to die in childbirth from blood loss.
New Information On Blood?
by EmptyInside 102 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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compound complex
Regarding post 8500:
Page 78 of The Four Presidents
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PSacramento
Great work Lion Cask, greatl appreciated !
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Lion Cask
You're welcome, PSacramento, but all the work was done by others. I just cut and pasted with a little editorializing.
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Gayle
Lion Cask, then, thank you for finding this good "wrap-up" format!! Seeing it a dated, evolving, simplified way has a good to the point impact.
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NewChapter
I am confused and wonder if anyone would be kind enough to clarify some things. I didn't know that BT changed from a DF offense to automatic DA. I'm not sure I understand how this is even different. I'm also disturbed that a "conscience matter" is something that leads to the DA status.
For instance, it is a conscience matter (now) if one takes fractions. I know lots of peeps that took them and had no problem. I understood that conscience matter meant between the person and their god, and the congregation did not get involved. Can someone explain how they reason that a conscience matter is no longer between the god and the person? I am sooo confused. Of course, I haven't updated my medical directive in years, so I'm definitely behind.
I think my question really is: How did the GB explain to the R&F that a conscience matter could now get them shunned? I''m sure they used some reasoning.
Also, what's happening in Bulgaria?
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compound complex
Welcome, NewChapter, to the forum.
I, likewise, am confused and hope that we both get some answers.Perhaps the link below will afford some answers:
"As regards the ALLEGED involvement of children, the applicant association [WTS] submits that children CANNOT BECOME MEMBERS of the association but only participate...In respect to the refusal of blood transfusions, the applicant association submits that there are NO religious sanctions for a Jehovah's Witness who CHOOSES TO ACCEPT a blood transfusion and that, therefore, the fact that the religious doctrine of Jehovah's Witnesses is against blood transfusions CANNOT AMOUNT TO A THREAT to public health." ECOHR, re: WT seeks legal recognition in Bulgaria, 1997, www.AJWRB.org
1600 new reads on this thread in the last week!
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TD
NewChapter
I am confused and wonder if anyone would be kind enough to clarify some things. I didn't know that BT changed from a DF offense to automatic DA I'm not sure I understand how this is even different.
Arguably very little difference. DF and DA are two different toilets in the same house. Anyhow it happened in the year 2000 via letter to all Circuit Overseers. (Hope that's the correct term!)
I'm also disturbed that a "conscience matter" is something that leads to the DA status.
Conscience matters do not result in judicial inquiry. I don't think anybody meant to say that if they did.
For instance, it is a conscience matter (now) if one takes fractions.
Fractions were first allowed in 1958. Over the years they've gradually allowed more and more. The most recent change occurred in the year 2000 when they said that "Primary components" were forbidden and everything else was allowed.
Also, what's happening in Bulgaria?
It happened almost 15 years ago. In 1997, the Bulgarian government refused to reregister Jehovah's Witnesses, in effect revoking their legal status in that country. (Registration of religious organizations is a requirement in Bulgaria under the Persons & Family Act of 1994) The dispute was eventually mediated by the European Court of Human Rights. The stance of JW's on military service and blood transfusions were the two main objections of the Bulgarian government.
In the amicable settlement, both sides agreed to make concessions.
This is what the Bulgarian government agreed to do:
"In settlement, the Government agreed to introduce legislation as soon as possible to provide for civilian service for conscientious objectors, as an alternative to military service and to register the applicant association as a religion."
This is what Jehovah's Witnesses agreed to do:
"The applicant undertook with regard to its stance on blood transfusions to draft a statement for inclusion in its statute providing that members should have free choice in the matter for themselves and their children without any control or sanction on the part of the assocation.
Jehovah's Witnesses did not keep their word. (Big surprise) They changed voluntary acceptance of a forbidden blood component from a pastoral matter to automatic expulsion and claimed that this was not a sanction.
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NewChapter
Thanks CC. Hmm, I was "reactivating" in 2000, so I guess I missed this memo. I thought they still DF'd for BT, and they did nothing to clarify the matter. What I meant by action taken on Conscience Matters is that if taking BT is a conscience matter, but they consider you da'd if you do so, then there are repercussions at least on this ONE conscience matter.
I don't even know why I'm searching for clarity hear. It's all so freaking tangled anyway, and intentionally murky. I thought I had a good hold on the "code" when I was baptized in 1991. But as the years rolled, they were always spinning things differently. At one point, I wasn't sure anymore what could get me df'd.
Maybe this was by design. This way, people are always running to the elders to check their standing, cuz they just don't know, and they don't want to be guilty of a secret sin, and that just extends the control. I've always been dealt with gently by the elders, but the policies they were following were becoming increasingly tighter and more difficult to interpret. You need a freaking lawyer to stay in good standing anymore.
Deep breath. Deep breath. It's all behind me.
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compound complex
Glad you checked back in, NewChapter.
TD also gave some great insight on the matter. Please see the new thread I put up for you on changing one's mind on blood. I'm not qualified to explain these matters but have found some resources that I hope are valuable to you.
I'm happy it's all behind you ...
CoCo
The statement is subtle and some JWs will initially miss its importance. Nevertheless, it signals an important shift in policy—JWs may now conscientiously accept any blood product that is a "fraction extracted from the primary components". Previously, JWs were permitted to accept fractions of blood plasma only. Does this subtle change create the potential for JWs to benefit from haemoglobin-based blood substitutes that are under development? It appears to do just that since haemoglobin is obtained by fractionating red cells. These developments must be monitored closely since blood substitutes have the potential dramatically to reduce deaths among the JW population. I am pleased by this development although I am concerned about the level of confusion among JWs and the medical community since the WTS in typical fashion obfuscates its intentions so as not to provoke controversy among the membership.