Dear Flipper, My wife and I are about to start this journey were our adult children will find out we are leaving the JW organization. I believe fully there is hope your daughter will wake up someday and see why you did what you did. At 23 she still has alot of growing up to do and that takes time. I feel your dream is telling you how much you truly love your daughter and you want her to know the truth and it hurts you now that she is not listening to you now. All I can say is give it time. And when you do get to speak to her use love as your motive in getting her to listen. Totally ADD
Dreamed my JW Daughter Shunned me in the Grocery Store and..........
by flipper 20 Replies latest jw friends
-
-
nugget
Remember Flipper time is on your side. There is no swift end to the system your daughters will be suffering changes in doctrine and reinterpretation of scripture, increase in the number of annointed and greater control. As women they will be kept away from the mechanics of the organisation and will not be aware of the politics that go on at elders meetings or the policy files that take the place of scripture. It may take them longer but it is not hopeless. All you can do is keep trying to connect with their authentic selves and make sure they know where you are when the time is right. You are more help to them on the outside since they have someone to go to they need not fear being shunned by you.
It is painful to see the cult at work in those we love all we can do is reassure them that however badly they behave we still love them unconditionally.
-
snowbird
You have my sympathy, (((((((Flipper))))))).
I'm going through something similar with my 21-year old JW Daughter.
Little heifer!
Syl
-
Butterflyleia85
(((Hugs to you Mr. Flipper)))
I have dreams like that all the time of my sister, she's married, baptised pioneer at age 20 (soon to be 21 Feb. 4th). She wants to keep in touch as far as me being pregnant goes but still I feel more silence then love. I feel it will never be the same because like you and your daughter, I was so close with my sister.
I can relate though so much, in that my dad was potrade to me as an evil man (which he was but my mom's anger and hurt just came off that way more so) so I had prejudge thoughts before I even got to reunite with him (being old enought to make my own decisions I wanted to know his side too) but didn't give up on him and wanted to know why. One day your daughter will want that! Keep showing your love and consern... one day she will ask why and want to know your reasoning and hopefully her consern for you and love for you will over ride the mind control of the Organization that has her. I know it did me... and I also pray and hope that one day my love and consern will win my sister over... and her love and concern for me will over ride the mind control of the Organization.
Right now I have high hopes (using my grandma and her sister as an example) because see my great aunt isn't a JW and yet my JW grandma is so close to her right now. One day that will be me and my sister... I maybe DFed but one day she will just see me as just a nonJW hopefully and we will be close. I will be patient with her and learn from how my aunt respects my grandma and see where that leads them. I guess in the past grandma use to shun my great aunt and maybe see her once and a great while... but after my grandpa died (who was an elder), my grandma and great aunt are unseperable.
Always have hope and keep positive... it what keeps people like us going. :)
-
scary21
Flipper, you raised two really good girls. You have the right idea, just keep trying with love, they know your out there.Keep telling them how much you love them. Never lose hope..............I would tell my daughter.....What ever you do, don't do any research on the internet..she would.. lol but that's just MY daughter.....she takes after me....inquiring minds what to know.....just have to look behind the curtain.........lol Maybe when she's a little older, and wiser, she will start to do her own thinking . I hope so, and beleive she will....a good chance one of them will .
-
jamiebowers
My daughters also have their JW mother ( my ex of 19 yrs.marriage ) who influences them to see me as either an inactive apostate , or at the least bad association who should be " marked " to avoid.
Mr. Flipper, you are such a dear man, and I hope I'm wrong about this. But it seems to me that the jws who are severe in their shunning tactics have a secondary motivation to do so. In your case, I think that the Watchtower and your ex-wife are the motivations for your daughters to shun you. It is the same with my jw mom who shuns me for being df'd and my brother for fading. Aside from Watchtower doctrine, our mother's other motivaton to shun her only two children is the shame she feels for being either too tired or too lazy to protect us from her abusive husband when we were young.
Shunning causes anger, pain and resentment for the one being shunned. It is so great for my brother and me that we simply shut down the hope of ever reonciling with her. In my view it's good riddance to bad rubbish. I know that seems harsh, but in my view, people who would turn on their own family just isn't worth the effort.
-
TastingFreedom
FLIPPER,
Your subsconcious is telling you that deep inside (shadows -unrecognized fears that cause you stress or fears) of you worry that somehow this is god's organization, and you're saying lies about them, and it's costing you the relationship that you used to have with your daughter.
I had a recent dream about a tsunami coming over and wiping me and my family off, deep inside in my subconscious I worry that we may have a major catastrophe or Armageddon that could destroy us, and not having a Deity or God to lean against. My rational brain tells me it won't happen, but that's why it's coming up as a dream, to show me that all the fears and programming deep-seated within us from years of indoctrination does not go away. It still come up to reminds us of the unsconcious fears.
Hope it helps!
Hope you guys are doing great. Best of luck, and don't lose hope that some day your daughter will be free.
-
mamalove
Flipper, I was your daughter.
I am my dad's "apple" now. We talk every day and I tell him I love him and hug him and share life with him and his great wife and they love my kids so much.
I am somewhat older than your kids. But young enough that I am at my prime of life. When I started THINKING FOR MYSELF, letting my eyes be opened, I turned to my dad for help. After shunning him since the age of 18, I knew I had to get some help figuring out what to do. The biggest thing I always knew was my dad loved me UNCONDITIONALLY. I KNEW the door was ALWAYS open. Always. That is the most important thing you can do is to never inflict judgement, let them know you are there no matter what.
I was still "shunning" my dad, but I would call him and sob on the phone about my miserable marriage, and other things bothering me about life. He was so supportive. He could have said go fly a kite! But he was patient, baby steps.
It really didnt take long before I had my affairs in order to move on and make drastic changes to my life and I have never looked back in the sense of going back to the JWs.
So all I can say is just keep doing what you are doing. Your kids are young enough where the odds of them finding long term happiness and satisfaction being a JW are low. Also, my mom sounds like your ex wife. Extremely bitter against my dad, like yours is against you. Major attempts at making horrible digs and unwarranted shots at my dad who was a great father. But she was rejected and the perfect family life she had created was upset. I think that can send people over the edge.
If your kids have something that might comprimise their JW stance, a hobby, and interest, something, just think positive about that, and perhaps the tide will change and point them away or weaken their ties to the brainwashing.
You are such a nice person and always so extraordinarily kind to people here. Hoping you can have a happy future, with joy, completeness and in the future a relationship with your kids, and grandkids.
-
flipper
Got back from working all night. Thanks so much for the great comments ! I really appreciate all of them.
THE LOVE DOCTOR- Oh, I see what you mean. I misunderstood the point you were making. Yes indeed, that IS a great idea perhaps getting their grandparents who they respect ( my folks ) to write them a letter encouraging them or prompting them to associate with me. I will definitely consider that. Thanks.
BOHM- Indeed, I thought I was making SOME progress in early 2010, however the pressure of the WT society's shunning policies and pressure from their fanatic JW mom probably intimidates my daughters as well. I'll just keep trying. You are right- my girls don't realize what they are missing out on in a father-daughter relationship. They are blinded by the cult.
TOTALLY ADD- I wish you the best in dealing with YOUR adult JW children as well my friend. I believe you are right- the dream may indicate that I want to explain myself and reasons for leaving the witnesses to my daughter as I do love her a lot and hate seeing her hurt. If I was to put something in writing to her- I 'd have to be EXTREMELY careful in case her or her sister shared it with their fanatic JW mom. ( Which they probably would- then she'd sick the elders on me ) - THAT is some of the dillemma I face in being open with my daughters. It sucks , because ANY private conversation I attempt to have with them- usually won't STAY private - it will go to their psycho mom.
NUGGET- You make a very good point in that my daughters being women - will be treated disrespectfully and as second class citizens inside the JW cult. So in time the changing " new light " or interpretations of how things are done in the WT organization will be unfair at best. Hopefully they will be able to see that fact. Also, you are correct- since there IS no Armageddon- time IS on my side to reach them . The longer they stay in the cult without an " rmageddon " happening- the more they may start to question things. Good point. I will keep trying to connect with their authentic selves. Very true.
SNOWBIRD- Good luck to you in reaching your 21 yr.old daughter my friend. It certainly can be taxing and frustrating for sure. Hugs back to ya ! , thanks for the kind thoughts !
BUTTERFLYLEIA 85- Hey thanks for the nice thoughts ! Hugs back to ya ! You make a very good point about how your mom used to diss your dad and tried to manipulate your mind to have a negative view of him. I feel my ex has done that also. I agree with you that real, true love wins out over cult mind controlled " conditional caring " and in time my daughter will see I really care for her know matter what. Like you said, I just have to stay positive and keep doing what I'm doing. I wish you the best towards getting back close with your ister and I hope your patience and love pay off in that endeavor ! Keep it up, I will too towards my daughters. Thanks.
SCARY 21- Good point. I do think the odds are in favor of at least ONE of my daughters breaking free and thinking on her own by researching info. I will keep trying with love, perhaps mentioning to them to research some info on the internet - I'd have to be careful in how I say it.
JAMIEBOWERS- Thanks for the kind words, I appreciate it. I'm sure you are correct- the WT society and my daughters mother is the influence and motivation for them shunning me. Perhaps my girls want to stay in tight with their mom- and feel if they were to show ANY preference to me- it would bother their relationship with their mom. I suspect this. O at least I suspect the girls mom is MAKING them feel guilty about possibly having a relationship with me OR their older inactive brother Flipper junior who is almost 26 now. Either way- it sucks.
As you stated, yes I have pain and some resentment from this shunning- but the resentment is more towards HOW my daughters are influenced to think and feel by the mind control of the WT society . I don't take it personally because I know if they were not influenced by the WT society or their fanatic JW mom- then we'd have a normal father-daughter relationship. So- I just try to be patient. I know my daughters have " dissociative disorder " a mental condition due to the mind control. I will keep trying.
TASTING FREEDOM- Interesting thoughts on my dream. It could be true that subconsciously from the 44 years of JW cult programming I have hidden " fears " in my head about whether or not the JW's are right or not concerning Armageddon - however it is ONLY subconscious. As soon as I'm awake to control my thoughts - there is NO WAY in hell I believe or have any fear or guilt anymore ! LOL ! I haven't for quite some time now being out for 7 years now. I KNOW the WT society is dead wrong. What's costing me my relationship with my daughters is THEY are being duped by the lies of the WT society into believing in an illusionary " shangri-la " type paradise where people never die. THAT is insanity . It's not real. But yes , hopefully my daughters will come around. Perhaps they'll be treated unjustly by authority figures in the WT organization and it will open their eyes. WE can only hope. I hope you and your family are doing well too my friend ! We are doin great . Thanks for the kind thoughts.
MAMALOVE- Wow. Very interesting experience. You were about the same age my daughters were when THEY started shunning me as when you shunned your dad. It sounds like your dad REALLY tried being there for you unconditionally through good and bad times and it made you think. I want to do that for my daughters also. Like your dad I will ALWAYS keep he door open for my girls and be there for them. In time, I believe their fanatic mom may slip up and REALLY turn off my daughters by her brash behavior and unbridled tongue. Any friends she has had eventually get tired of her intrusiveness and nosiness into their lives. Even a local needs talk was given in 2005 based on my ex-wife spreading rumors about a sister doing massage therapy out of her home - my ex-wife told others in the congregation she felt immorality and fornication might happen in that house and was worried because my older daughter was living with this sister. The sister got pissed off at my ex, and the P.O. gave a talk about gossiping to others in the congregation. Of course- my ex didn't get the point the talk was about her- she just nodded in agreement when the talk was given acting like she didn't like gossiping either. My ex wasn't , nor is the sharpest tool in the shed. ( sigh ). Thanks for the good thoughts mama
-
hirotaka
Hi Flipper:
Same here.....except my two kids are no where near as militant. But there always seems to be that invisible wall between us no matter what.
Thanks
H