What evidence is there that the Jewish people actually resided in the land of Egypt at one time?
Were the Jews ever in Egypt?
by VM44 18 Replies latest watchtower bible
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Leolaia
There was a thriving Jewish community in Egypt since the time of the Babylonian exile. You may want to Google "Elephantine", "Philo of Alexandria", and "Septuagint".
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Terry
The temple in Elephantine is rather an interesting story..
'Now our forefathers built this temple in the fortress of Elephantine back in the days of the kingdom of Egypt, and when Cambyses came to Egypt he found it built. They (the Persians) knocked down all the temples of the gods of Egypt, but no one did any damage to this temple."
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Lore
I'm guessing he's referring to BEFORE the Babylonian exile. . . Them being slaves in Egypt which was supposed to be like 900 years before that.
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dgp
I read somewhere (but I cannot remember where) that archaeological evidence points to the fact that the jews never left the Holy Land. I will check and will come back if I can find my source.
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BurnTheShips
What evidence is there that the Jewish people actually resided in the land of Egypt at one time?
What people were there in the really early times, were there before they truly became "Jews".
That would not until later. Even using the Biblical narrative as a reference, this did not happen until after the Exodus.
BTS
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Leolaia
I'm guessing he's referring to BEFORE the Babylonian exile. . . Them being slaves in Egypt which was supposed to be like 900 years before that.
Yes, except there was no such ethnic entity as "Jews" that early.
What people were there in the really early times, were there before they truly became "Jews". That would not until later. Even using the Biblical narrative as a reference, this did not happen until after the Exodus.
I agree. And it is pretty uncontroversial that the population of ancient Judah contained people who had lived in Egypt. Asiatics are well-known in Egyptian sources from the New Kingdom, particularly since the campaigns in the Levant during the Egyptian-Hittite wars brought many prisoners-of-war from what would later become the kingdoms of Israel and Judah. And the Hyksos expelled earlier ruled Egypt for over a century (and from the same city the exodus narrative places the Israelites) resettled in what would be LBA Canaan. Judah was an ethnically heterogenous kingdom, as is evident when the genealogies in Genesis and 1 Chronicles are carefully examined (containing some clans with strong affinities with Edom), and it is significant that Levites in the OT (the group that predominates in the exodus and wilderness narratives) often have names derived from the Egyptian language (e.g. Moses, Aaron, Phinehas, Merari, Hori, Assir, Pashhur, Hophni, Harnepher, Putiel, Ahira, Assir, etc.), usually bearing Egyptian DNs (especially Ra, Horus, and Osiris) as theophoric elements.
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peacefulpete
So what Leolaia is saying is that the exodus story may reflect a collective memory of having ancestors in Egypt or possibly be framed upon the expulsion of the foreign Hyksos, a people who have been tenetively identified by some as of Canananite origin. The OT story however depicts the "Jews" as having been slaves in Egypt while the Hyksos were actually the ruling party. History does not support the exodus story however if the Hyksos were Semetic and from the region as many believ, it is possible that the story retains some element of fact. Josephus is apparently the first to have made a connection between the OT story and the Hyksos expulsion.
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Larsinger58
From a strict Biblical chronology point of view, if you follow the "Book of Sothis" the Exodus occurs at the end of the reign of Amenhotep III. That gives us a comparison opportunity for when Moses was born 80 years earlier which would have been near the end of the reign of ThuthMOSIS III. Thus likely the daughter of Thuthmosis III adopted Moses.
From that time we have a confirmation of brickmaking from a mural here:
http://www.biblepicturegallery.com/pictures/Other-Oc/Brick%20making%20in%20Egypt%20la.htm
Though there is some debate about this, the workers are non-Egyptian and are depicted as fair-skinned compared to the dark Egyptians. A close look at facial features are typically Asiatic, so this could very well be depicting Israelites who per the Bible were enslaved primarily for brickmaking. Thus I maintain reservations for those who quickly claim there is "no evidence" of the Exodus. First and foremost you must date the Exodus to a specific pharaoh, if possible, then look closely at that specific pharaoh's rule for confirmatory or contradictory details. The Exodus works exquisitely well at the beginning of the reign of Akhenaten because he converted to monotheism and dumped the other gods of Egypt as "worthless." That's a text-book response to some national event like the ten plagues.
Here's a YouTube video linking Akhenaten to the Exodus. To me, his sudden conversion to monotheism, which the Israelites were, is proof enough the Exodus occurred if we can effectively date the Exodus to the beginning of his reign. But there is much reluctance to do so--not that there's much choice archaeologically or historically. Kathleen Kenyon, for instance, dates Joshua's invasion of Jericho between 1350-1325 BCE. That means the Exodus, per archaeology, is best placed between 1390-1365 BCE, which in turn is during the reign of Amenhotep III/Akhenaten. The WTS, of course, dates the Exodus to 1513 BCE, which is way too early archaeologically. In this case, though, archaeology and the secular history from the Book of Sothis would agree the Exodus occurs at the end of the reign of Amenhotep III which means the monotheism of Akhenaten was inspired by the 10 plagues. Here's here quote:
Kathleen Kenyon: Digging Up Jericho, Jericho and the Coming of the
Israelites, page 262:
"As concerns the date of the destruction of Jericho by the Israelites, all
that can be said is that the latest Bronze Age occupation should, in my
view, be dated to the third quarter of the fourteenth century B.C. This is a
date which suits neither the school of scholars which would date the entry
of the Israelites into Palestine to c. 1400 B.C. nor the school which
prefers a date of c. 1260 B.C."
Page 261 of her book, "Digging Up Jericho," in the Chapter called "Jericho
And Coming Of The Israelites," she says:
"It is a sad fact that of the town walls of the Late Bronze Age, within
which period the attack by the Israelites must fall by any dating, not a
trace remains."So whether there is "evidence" or not of the Exodus is entirely on how much or what in particular you know about Egypt and WHEN you date the Exodus. If you date it to the end of the reign of Amenhotep III, there is a lot of corroborating evidence for the Exodus at that time. But if you have jive dates like the WTS based on incompetent chronology you will come up with zip. At any rate, no one can say those Asiatics making bricks during the reign of Thuthmosis III aren't Israelites, thus we do have some potential "evidence" of the Israelites in Egypt as brickmakers.
Don't listen to JIVE from anti-Biblical scholars. Do your own research.
Per the Bible, the Exodus must occur in 1386 BCE (linked to 1947 jubilee) and immediately afterwards all of Egypt repents and begins to sacrifice to Yahweh (Isa 19:19-24), which did happen during the time of Akhenaten. For me, that is more than enough evidence of the Exodus, but only when dated to 1386 BCE.
LS
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Larsinger58
Oops! I forgot to give the LINK to the Akhenaten, monotheism, Exodus connection!!!
AKHENATEN YOUTUBE VIDEOS
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpkK6XoqRQo(Amarna)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJueiLBV3rI(ATHEISTS)
See my previous comment on when the Exodus occurred and how the conversion to monotheism supports the Exodus for this period. The 70th jubilee which begins in 1947 forces us to date the Exodus to 1386 BCE, specifically.
LS