young brothers expelled from B/bethel in early 70s

by singsongboi 22 Replies latest jw friends

  • Eric
    Eric

    Atreyu,

    I can remember that WTS some years back wrote in an article or book that "scratching someone's back may lead to homosexuality". May be the Bethel sauna incident was the reason for this odd warning?
    Perhaps you were remembering this?

    *** w83 6/1 26 Maintaining God's View of Sex ***
    At times homosexual acts have been precipitated by things that in themselves are not wrong, such as the giving or accepting of back rubbing or of back washing in the shower. Or sometimes persons will playfully wrestle and become aroused sexually. There is a need for caution. Be aware that such activity can lead to, and on occasion has led to, homosexual acts, even among Christians.

    Eric

  • Bendrr
    Bendrr

    I heard about that one from my dad. He was at Brooklyn Bethel from the late 60's to the early 70's. He had a few stories like that. His version of the massage story was that there was a brother who gave massages to some older elders (close to or of the GB, I think) and got "a little too personal" if you know what I mean.
    Others he told were about brothers who liked to go around naked in their rooms and "admire themselves" in the mirror and ones who liked to wrestle naked.
    Those kind of stories are nothing but gossip fodder in my opinion.
    Mike.

    "You can't have everything, where would you put it?" -- Steven Wright

  • Seeker
    Seeker

    I can confirm these stories. I knew a Bethelite who went to a brother's room for a party. During the part things got out of hand and sexual activity began between a number of the young men. This Bethelite was not into homosexual activity, felt very uncomfortable and surprised by what was happening. At that moment another brother walked in, took one look and started taking names. Everyone involved was kicked out of Bethel, including the Bethelite who was in the wrong place at the wrong time. He felt terrible, and we all felt bad for him, but out he went.

    This was in the days before locks on the doors. Anyway, this sort of thing (hidden homosexual activity) has gone on at Bethel at times.

  • jst2laws
    jst2laws

    Hello singsongboi

    I was there. It started with a young man who was a male nurse who specialized off duty in massages for the young bethelites. Yes, the story told was that it got too personal far too often. A young man in the electric shop was offended and reported the brother. This was not his only victim. Then the witch hunt started. Most of what the Bethel family got was what Knorr grossed us with at the breakfast table.

    You can not have a mostly male institution without some problems. They just like to think they can. Shortly after that they brought in a lot of sisters and married couples, but this had its problems too. I suspect there were a lot of good guys thrown out unjustly during that period. But maybe that was, in the long run, a good thing for them.

    Jst2laws

  • Derrick
    Derrick

    In the mid-1970's I recall reading a JW Yearbook of 1974 or 1975 or thereabouts (not sure of exact year) that spoke about "gangs of homosexuals" in Brooklyn. I distinctly remember reading in that JW Yearbook that these homosexuals preyed upon Bethelites, specifically those outside the compound due to attend meetings at their assigned congregations in Brooklyn. I recall that it mentioned some were raped, and that some became homosexuals and were expelled. I read this over 25 years ago, sorry if my memory on specifics is fuzzy. Perhaps the exact Yearbook is on the Watchtower CD, and can be searched by keywords like "homosexual", "rape", and "Bethel"?

    Aside from the Yearbook's side of the story, I have also heard about this story from a Bethel brother firsthand. In the upper-mid-1970's a brother and friend left Bethel after serving for 4 years, and came to live in the same large home where many single brothers shared rent, chores and held book studies. That is also where I lived. (I had been baptized for a few years, and in my late teens.)

    This Bethel brother said there was a "homosexual epidemic at Bethel" as he described it. The congregations in the area were "expelling gross-wrongdoers right and left" he said. He claimed that evidently "some who had fallen into these unnatural works of the flesh were recruiting naive 18 year old Bethelites, evidently confused about their sexual identities and powerless to resist their raging hormones, as male escorts" (as close to his exact words as I remember). He also said some of the young Bethelites "with good looks, specifically the bodybuilder types due to heavy lifting in the bindery" were taken by gangs outside the Bethel complexes. This lead to mass hysteria, he said, amongst those at the top of the organization who turned Bethel into an "ultra-modern fortress" with enclosed bridges connecting buildings, and underground tunnels, etc., to prevent new Bethel recruits from having to leave the compound. They viewed Brooklyn at that time as like Sodom and Gomorrah, and believed this was all the more reason to think the end was quickly drawing near.

    Thanks to his telling of this sordid human tragedy, I decided not to apply for Bethel service (which I aspired to)! Yes, like many my age, my hormones were in over-drive and I wasn't about to be exploited by what appeared to be an organized crime element nested right inside of "God's organization"! As word spread of this situation, many young men decided not to attend Bethel. I even recall an emphasis for "married brothers and sisters" to enlist at Bethel and share accommodations in order to discourage "temptation the single brothers were experiencing".

    My stomach is getting knotted with an unpleasant feeling of stress over these tragic memories. I hope this has helped give some breadth to what occurred in those extremely immoral times of the 1970's.

    Derrick

    To see a World in a Grain of Sand
    And a Heaven in a Wild Flower,
    Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
    And Eternity in an hour.

    -- William Blake (Auguries of Innocence)

  • Seeker
    Seeker

    Rick,

    That story told you was absurd and false. Those of us in New York City at the time never heard of roving gang of homosexuals raping young men, as if such a thing would happen! Absurd.

    No, the homosexual behavior occured within Bethel's walls, between Bethelites. Nobody was forced into anything.

  • Farkel
    Farkel

    Rick,

    It WOULD have to take YOU to bring me out of retirement and call you on your nonsense, wouldn't it?

    You said:

    : I distinctly remember reading in that JW Yearbook that these homosexuals preyed upon Bethelites,

    So the JW yearbook speaks the truth, eh? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

    :... specifically those outside the compound due to attend meetings at their assigned congregations in Brooklyn. I recall that it mentioned some were raped, and that some became homosexuals and were expelled.

    Male rape = a male can become a homosexual from that = being expelled for being a homosexual. That sounds like the crap the Knorr would say. He didn't screw his own his wife Audrey and he had a thing about boy wee-wees, so he's a REAL credible authority on information, huh?

    : I read this over 25 years ago, sorry if my memory on specifics is fuzzy.

    So is everything else you say, my friend.

    I'll go back in my cave now, Rick.

    Farkel
    Couldn't Help-But-Comment-On-This-One Class

    "I didn't mean what I meant."

  • Derrick
    Derrick
    That story told you was absurd and false. Those of us in New York City at the time never heard of roving gang of homosexuals raping young men, as if such a thing would happen! Absurd.

    No, the homosexual behavior occured within Bethel's walls, between Bethelites. Nobody was forced into anything.

    Let's see, I'll either have to believe "those of us in New York City at the time" whom I've never met, or believe the brother and friend who slaved away at Bethel for four years before having his own "crisis of conscience." Guess who I'll believe?

    As for the Yearbook lying, I dunno... Although one might question accuracy in some of the literature, the Yearbooks generally have a good reputation for accuracy do they not? (I'm practically handing to Farkel a note begging for abuse on that one, -grin-!)

    In any event, I distinctly remember the Society asking for COUPLES to attend in the late 1970's district assemblies, and the elders telling me afterwards that this is to recruit fewer singles. The rationale behind it, they said, was the issue of "temptation" with singles and a reference to the homosexual debacle in Brooklyn.

    Difficult to believe gangs could rape men? I thought that was old news, the prisons are full of gang rape and that sort of abuse. Also, back in the 1970's, homosexuals didn't have the reputation for being civil and monogamous that is portrayed by the gay movement today. New York was considered a sexual jungle back then. Sorry I'm blurting all of this out and not sugar-coating it.

    Derrick

  • singsongboi
    singsongboi

    thnx all for your comments!!!!

    well! always suspected that NY the heart of the beast !!! kekekekekeke

    and nathan knorr liked dicks??? wow!! really????

  • Abaddon
    Abaddon

    This line conjured images;

    ""gangs of homosexuals" in Brooklyn."

    A new Bethelite walks past two... more experienced Bethelites...

    Bro 1; Ooo! Look at the book-bag on him!
    Bro 2; Sweetie! Fancy a sample copy?

    People living in glass paradigms shouldn't throw stones...

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