Help: Re: Letter to elders NOT to disfellowship otherwise legal action will be taken (page 3)

marcopolo

Hello

i like much this letter,

can we use also in other country for not disfellowship?

Ding

Marcopolo,

You need to consult a lawyer in your country about your legal rights there.

I'm a lawyer and were I counsel for the Witnesses I would not be afraid at all. Having not read the legal strategy, I can't comment. With what I know, it is inconceivable to me that a court would police relationships within a religion. It is exactly what courts are forbidden to do. All I can think of maybe having a chance is a libel, defamation action. Maybe if they were so intrusive making allegations that you lost a job. Henry VIII launched his infamous law suits against his lawful wife. It was the very thing that Founders were insistent be stopped in this country.

I would be interested in hearing the theory. There is always the theory that any legal letter might have a chilling effect. You don't stop them from practicing their religion. Heck, the Supreme Court ruled recently that the Salvation Army could practice hiring discrimination as part of their religion. They had new light that all workers should be members of their religion. They fired people who refused to join the religion. Antidiscrimination statutes exist. The First Amendment trumps even discrimination statutes.

Besides, aside from business loss, I don't see what damages or remedy any court would order. If they aren't sophisticated, they might be afraid. On the other hand, threat of legal action inflames a situation. You would likely end up with a far worst situation. Broken hearts and souls don't count in law. Law does not guarantee justice. I see little justice in law. I would think not being afraid of them, not recognizing their legitimacy and talking to them as someone entitled to certain human rights might accomplish more than legal letter.

Perhaps I am not aware of something. This is my knee jerk reaction from all I've ever been exposed to in First Amendment law. I'm not as strong in torts such as libel and defamation.

Band on the Run

Every country has different law. Former British colonies have common law in common so the historical basis is the same. Once they are independent countries, the law evolves according to the culture and experience of that country. Other European countries have civil law based on the Napoleonic Code. It is very different. All Western democracies have brakes on courts becoming involved in internal religious matters.

I don't see the legal damage. If you negotiate from a position of not recognizing their authority, how can they hurt you in a legal sense? Withih my family, all the problems resulted from believing in the legitimacy of the WTBTS. It is like voodoo. If you don't believe it, you are safe from it. There is no way a court will order them to not police their religion and have your family and friends not shun you.

Knowing what is happening to other similarly situated people can help? Are you being treated different from other Witnesses accused of the same offense? How about the ignorance defense if you are keen on staying. I had no idea. Thank you for making me aware of how wrong this was. Now that I know, I can conform my behavior to your requirements. Do you have any suggestions for how I can prove to you that I will never repeat my conduct. I need your counsel. I appreciate that your are spiritually more mature than I am. You are a good role model. Would you be willing to help me b/c I am so sincere in my devotion to Jehovah and his organization? ---I'd rather be disfellowshipped.

Band on the Run

This topic has me hyped up. I just can't imagine why you would not want to d'f'd if you no longer believe. Perhaps my thinking is too black and white. Growing up I constantly fear rejection from extended family for not being good enough. If you do the KH thing, there is always pioneering, then Gilead or Bethel. It is endless. My immediate family faded. We had few social ties so they knew nothing of our business. A brother did knock on my mom's door all alone. He screamed out "Do you love me?". Even my JW grandmother thought that was too much. It is a bad witness to the neighbors - the fact that some numbnskull visits without permission is a ok with her. I lived to please the brothers in any way I could. When the KH was built, I sanded to perfection. Anything to get approval. School gave me approval.

As I grew older, I volunteered for college scholarships and school became more intense. Gradually, I grew out of the circle. It was gradual.

My extended family did not stop talking to us, lending us money or being loving. This result was a major shock to me. I don't want to sound snippety. The joy of being out is so divine. I despised Paul most of all. Now I'm a fan.

Legal letters don't work magic. Some may be scared. I don't see where talking to them as an equal adult or an adult condescending to them would not reach a better result. When I worked for a large firm, everyone sues. They don't take it personally. It is just a cost of business. They have in-house and outside counsel. Individuals who are not repeat players in the system are traumatized and furious.

DeeDubs

Sheperd Book, did the letter stop them from disfellowshipping you?

LouBelle

Thank you all for your help and comments - MR FLIPPER - always appreciate the postive you bring.

To clarify one thing for Band on the Run - I am disfellowshipped ( you would have seen that from my profile if you took the time to go into and read it), have been for six years and welcomed it, my exit was public and I stood up for what I deemed to be right for me. The matter of the letter - this is for my aunt. She has an elderly mother that is a JW and needs care, for my aunt to be disfellowshipped would leave her mother without someone to help her. She want's to use a letter as a detterrent - she hasn't been an active member for many years but has always been there for her mother.

wobble

Dear LouBelle,

could you tell us a little more about your Aunt's situation ? Is a threat of DF'ing looming ? if not then she might want to keep all this info, letters etc in her arsenal , but only use them as and when, so as not to stir anything up, but I guess some thing has happened ?

LouBelle

There may be a threat looming, so she wants to be prepared. Her mother keeps pestering my aunt to go back to meeting, but my aunt doesn't want too and mentioned a couple of reasons why. Her mother said it sounded apostate. My aunt just wants to make sure they don't disfellowship just because.

(they had done that to my mother, but she didn't care)

Band on the Run

LouBelle,

If you are chasting me for not reading your profile, it is arrogant to assume that in a casual forum people will bother to research you. As much as I hate the Witnesses, I would step up and defend them from threat of legal action. Once you threaten, can you go to court and not be fined for filing a frivolous law suit. My entire life I've revered First Amendment rights b/c my family went through hell as Witnesses in Rutherford's time. My mom's dream was to be a teacher or a fashion designer. She was expelled for not saluting the flag, and left education when she was 14. My uncle had the highest academic score in the state of New Jersey, he was expelled with less than a week to go before graduation. Another uncle went to federal prison because of refusing to be drafted. My father was a bodyguard to Knorr and Rutherford. A right wing priest with a radioo show stirred up so much animosity towards the Witnesses that his followers forced their way into a convention at Madison Square Garden and threw ammonia bombs on women and children.

Certain principles are so important they are constitutional and outrank other legal theories. One never knows all the details of a given situation. I'm not giving legal advice but, rather, legal information. People assume the law will support their positions b/c it is a matter of common sense or virtue. I believed that fervently. There is only way for you to assess the situation. Make an appt for a consultation and discuss the merits and flaws of your particular situation. My larger point is that law is not a panacea. General discussions may be instructive but a trained professional can tailor a response based on all the relevant facts.

Your family situation is very moving. I hope you find a good resolution.

Help: Re: Letter to elders NOT to disfellowship otherwise legal action will be taken

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