Mad Sweeney - did you get my PM?
A Concerned Elder Speaks
by Franklin Massey 110 Replies latest jw friends
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Franklin Massey
This conversation is getting much better, Finger. We needed clarity and reference on your position and you are providing it nicely. Thanks.
That is the thinking I was brought up with as we lived in the final part of the last days.
Active JWs are still be told this same thing, but for many, it is becoming less and less real to them.
If a JW no longer believes he is living in the final part he should leave in my opinion. I did.
I'm sure you are familiar with the posters on this board who, after weighing the outcomes, decide to stay in for family/social reasons. For some, it's just not that easy. Also, consider those who allow for room in understanding JW doctrine. Lets say that they love 99% of what the religion has to offer, but just don't know of the end is really so near. Should they throw the baby out with the bath water?
You made a bold choice and now you are free, so to speak. You are to be commended. It's hard for some to do what you did, or maybe the time just isn't right. Either way, as we both agree, its a personal choice and the point of the thread was about the GBs powerful influence in the personal matters of JWs.
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Franklin Massey
Dinah, I would probably never even have to start elementary school. I was told the same thing about High School, marriage, etc. I don't hear too many people making those promises to children anymore.
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The Finger
Franklin Massey,
"Lets say that they love 99% of what the religion has to offer, but just don't know of the end is really so near. Should they throw the baby out with the bath water"
Yes there are people I am in contact with who feel somewhat similar.
Franklin. When you dedicated to your life to God was there a condition attached?
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Billy the Ex-Bethelite
A person doesn't need a college education to become powerful leaders and enjoy a high standard of living. They don't even have to be high school graduates. They only need to sip the wine and nibble the crackers and they can be on the fast track to world rulership as a member of the GB. And underneath it all, an egotistic idiot doesn't want anyone smarter than them hanging around.
So Watchtower Corp. is directed by a bunch of poorly educated, well-dressed janitors.
I attended a DC featuring Tony Morris last summer. During the concluding talk he said something like, "Someone who says that they need more education is someone that doesn't have any faith." I just wonder if Tony had to have surgery, would he prefer a specialist with more education, training, and experience, or would he gladly go under the knife of some uneducated janitor who shared his "faith"? Slice and dice. This is your warning to choose the better educated.
Yeah, Tony was able to pioneer, and raise his family doing cleaning in the 70s, but of course he also had veterans' benefits. And of course, he's not doing it now, he's Jesus Christ, Jr. as a GB... an uneducated janitor that can eat crackers and sip wine once a year with a straight face.
Just remember that you've been warned, Tony. You may enjoy having the sheeples line up to kiss your ring after a DC, but you're only skilled for janitorial work and you're surrounding yourself with uneducated people.
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garyneal
Franklin. When you dedicated to your life to God was there a condition attached?
Sorry, but you are confusing God with an organization. Sadly, too many JDubs (including my wife) do this. I guess it is a by product of the WT conditioning.
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pontoon
Back some years when I served as an elder and was probably 90% "in" the org mentally, a bethel bro., very educated and very well paid before he became a witness gave a talk about the waste of time worldly education was. He had in the past told me about how great Wat. farm life was with no living expenses. He was able to enjoy his wealth, nice cars, vacations, not saying he flaunted his money, but it obviously made his life more enjoyable. I don't believe he really had "freedom of speech" on that topic. I can understand what Finger is saying. Another "Farm Boy" gave a part that had to do with secular work and dealing with our employers. This kid never had a job. Went from HS to daddy supported pioneer to Wat. farm. He knew nothing about the dynamics and politics of a work place. He knew nothing about paying bills and putting food on a table. And now he is giving counsel from the platform to men and women that have and are raising families. I dislike that crap so much. It made me feel so not at peace in my head. So,... I figured out that if what was coming from the platform was good scriptural counsel, from the slave, I'll take it. Everything else in one ear and out the other. That thinking helped me for a while. Not too long after my big drift began.
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Heaven
I attended a DC featuring Tony Morris last summer. During the concluding talk he said something like, "Someone who says that they need more education is someone that doesn't have any faith."
B the X, you have more strength and endurance than me. I don't think I could stand listening to such tripe.
Learning is a lifelong endeavour. Since the one constant in life is change, we must constantly learn to be able to deal with the change. It is also a human need. So the Botchtower is attempting to remove the human needs of people by saying crap like this. Take away our needs, and we die.
Just remember that you've been warned, Tony. You may enjoy having the sheeples line up to kiss your ring after a DC, but you're only skilled for janitorial work and you're surrounding yourself with uneducated people.
I wonder if he'd actually 'get' what you're talking about if he read this.
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Giordano
Finger, yes there was a condition attached when you dedicated your life to god. That condition was that the JW'S was the one true religion, that Armageddon was eminent and you needed to concentrate on the preaching work instead of getting a higher education and a fancy job. The condition was if you were a proper witness in all things you had a good shot at escaping the total destruction of mankind. Now the conditions have changed. Most apostates on this forum were loyal clean living witnesses. They had kept up their end of the bargain. And it was a bargain through one's service and worship for everlasting life. Does any JW believe that god has nothing for them, no reward for all the toil they go through?
The WTBTS broke the deal in any number of ways and when they did we no longer had to honor that original contract........dedicating yourself to god through that organization was nullified.
If you really want to love and worship god then you could easily pick one of many religions that respects your needs and your families. Your contract with a different religion will not bind you for life nor prevent you from living a decent life. Your association with a different religion will allow you to have a different level of commitment to a god you eventually still care about. And best of all it probably will not be reward driven.
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Billy the Ex-Bethelite
Heaven,
No, Tony isn't that bright. During the talk of a completely unrelated "theme", he seemed to go well out of his way to make a couple of brief jabs at education. Evidently, he doesn't like smart people.