Jay Hoover is love incarnated. Sure, from time to time he likes to fry one or two apostates who scorn him...ok, not just one or two...but he is love itself. Sometimes he does not fry them, he drowns them or send plagues against them. He kills them because of his immense love for mankind.
Watchtower contradicts the Bible on HELL
by brotherdan 40 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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brotherdan
Amen, DagothUr.
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OBVES
The Watchtower is one of the best to pinpoint there is no hot hell forever . Those who try to imply there is a hot hell forever know nothing about the true God of the Bible . Of course God can destroy people with fire in an everlasting way meaning that fire will finish off those people once for all the time.
The best preacher of literal hell was Harold Camping of the Family Radio for decades . No one in the world teaught hell in so cruel way as Camping and he taught it by intense studying of the Bible for decades. And in this intense study he might have been the best or one of the best and yet he was so strong proponent of hell .He was 100% sure like he is today sure Christ will return on May 21 ,2011 that hell exists. IN 2007 he was still in this hot hell doctrine to change it that year near the end .
Now he is one of the best to teach there is no hot hell forever !
Just listen to Open Forum
All religions that teach literal hot hell will be destroyed by God .
God will annihilate the people who share this view in the endtime era we live now.
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brotherdan
NOOOOOOO!!! OBVES, you aren't allowed here. Take your spamming false prophecy elsewhere.
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OBVES
There is no hot hell forever is a specialty of Jehovah's Witnesses that puts them well ahead of all other christian organizations and only blind people cannot see that .
The true religion must teach then there is no hot hell forever from the very beginning of its existence .On this one point most religions are disqualified and are doomed together with their adherents . I would not like to be for a second in a shoe of a person that believes in eternal hot hell .
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brotherdan
All religions that teach literal hot hell will be destroyed by God .
What scripture says this?
What about individual PEOPLE that believe in a literal Hell?
You really need to just become a JW. You already sound like one.
Also remember that the Bible DOES say that those that promote false prophecy will be destroyed. So you might want to think about that.
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Billy the Ex-Bethelite
According to the Bible as taught by Jews, Jephthah completed his vow, offering his daughter as a burnt sacrifice to Jehovah. It would be safe to assume that she would be killed first, based on the case of Abraham/Isaac and the routine animal burnt offerings, rather than actually burned alive.
Frankly, that particular detail isn't important to the fact that Jephthah made the vow "after the spirit of the Lord came upon him". In an account such as this, God becomes capable of any deadly or torturous action regardless of the actual method of dispatch.
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brotherdan
Sorry to disagree with you Billy, but proper hermeneutics in the verses about Jepthas sacrifice show that his daughter was not offered as a burnt sacrifice.
God detests the offering of humans to him. Jeremiah 7:31 says: " And they have built the high places of Tophet, which is in the Valley of the Son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, which I did not command, nor did it come into My heart."
Also, Lev 27:28 says: " ‘Nevertheless no devoted offering that a man may devote to the Lord of all that he has, both man and beast, or the field of his possession, shall be sold or redeemed; every devoted offering is most holy to the Lord "
When Jephthah returned from a victorious battle, the first person to greet him from his house was his only child. Because she was his first child, he would not be able to redeem her. Because he vowed her for destruction as a burnt offering, she not only could not be redeemed, but she was also marked as being most holy to the Lord. Both Jephthah and his daughter realized that Jephthah's vow bound his daughter to be a virgin for the rest of her life. For Jephthah that meant the end of his lineage.
His daughter rightly encouraged her father to keep his vow. She just asked for two months to bewail her virginity (Judges 11:38). Notice that she did not grieve over her short life because her life wasn't coming to an end. When Jephthah fulfilled his vow, it is noted that she never had sexual relations with a man (Judges 11:39). There is no mention of her losing her life because of her father's vow, nor is there any need to make such an assumption. Only sacrificial animals could be placed on the altar. Everything else was either redeemed or placed into service for God.
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brotherdan
Also remember this:
1. Literal "burnt offerings" HAD TO BE male (Lev 22.18-19). Jephthah's daughter obviously wasn't.
2. Burnt offerings were ALWAYS associated with condemnation/evil--not thanksgiving and vows. Even the one non-literal use of it in Dt 13.16 (in which a town is offered as a burnt offering) involves abject judgment/condemnation--NOT at all in view in the Jephthah passage.
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Leolaia
The notion of Gehenna as an eschatological place where the wicked are tortured and punished, or that the wicked would experience such punishment, was a bonafide Jewish (and early Christian) belief from the time.
"These hollow places [in Sheol] are so the spirits of the souls of the dead (ta pneumata tón psukhón tón nekrón) may be gathered in them ... created for the spirits of the sinners, when they die and are buried in the earth, and judgment has not been executed on them in their life. Here their spirits (ta pneumata autón) are separated for this great torment (eis tén megalén basanon tautén), until the great day of judgment, of scourges and tortures (basanón) of the accursed forever (mekhri aiónos), that there might be a recompense for their spirits. There he will bind them forever (dései autous mekhris aiónos)" (1 Enoch 22:3, 10-11; written in the late third century BC).
"Woe to you sinners, because of the words of your hands! On account of the deeds of your wicked ones, in blazing flames worse than fire, it shall burn... Know that down to Sheol they will lead your souls and there they will be in great distress, and in darkness and in a snare and in a flaming fire. Into great judgment your souls will enter, and the great judgment will be for all the generations of eternity" (1 Enoch 100:9, 103:7-8; the Epistle of Enoch was written in the mid-second century BC).
"The judgment of all who walk in such [wicked] ways will bring an abundance of afflictions (lrwb ngw`ym) at the hands of the angels of perdition (m'lky chbl), for eternal damnation (lshcht 'wlmym) in the wrath of God's furious vengeance, with terror and shame without end (lz`wtntsch wchrpt), with a humiliating destruction by fire in the darkness (`m klmt klh b-'sh mchshkym). For all eternity (qtsyhm), generation by generation (ldwrwtm), they will spend in bitter weeping (b-'bl) and harsh evils (ygwn wr`t) in dark abysses (b-hwywt chwshd) without any remnant nor rescue from destruction" (1 QS 4:11-14; the Qumran Community Rule was written in the late second century BC)
"Woe to the nations that rise against my people, the Lord Almighty will requite them; in the day of judgment (hémerai kriseós) he will punish (ekdikései) them, he will send fire (dounai pur) and worms into their flesh, and they shall burn and suffer forever (klausontai en aisthései heós aiónos)" (Judith 16:17; written in the late second century BC).
"There shall no more be Beliar's spirit of error, because he will be thrown into the eternal fire (embléthésetai en tói puri eis ton aióna), and those who died in sorrow shall be raised in joy ... and those who died on account of the Lord shall be wakened to life. And the deer of Jacob shall run with gladness, the eagles of Jacob shall fly with joy, the impious shall mourn (penthésousi) and the sinners shall weep (klausontai), but all the peoples shall glorify the Lord forever" (Testament of Judah 25:3-5; written in the first century BC).
"Put us to the test then, tyrant; and if you [i.e. Antiochus Epiphanes] take our lives for the sake of our religion, do not think you can harm us with your torments (basanizón). By our suffering and endurance (kakopatheias kai hupomonés) we shall obtain the prize of virtue and shall be with God, on whose account we suffer. But you, because of our foul murder, will suffer (karteréseis) at the hand of divine justice the everlasting torment by fire (aionión basanon dia puros) you deserve" (4 Maccabees 9:7-9; written in the first century AD).
"Are you [Antiochus] not ashamed to receive your kingdom with all its blessings from the hand of God and then to kill those who serve him and torture (streblósai) those who practice piety? In return for this, justice will hold you in store for an intense and everlasting fire (puknoteró kai aionió puri) and for torments (basanois) which will never let you go for all time (ai eis holon ton aióna)" (4 Maccabees 12:11-12).
"These are the servants of all creation who come to the souls of ungodly men and bring them and leave them in this place. They spend three days going around with them in the air before they bring them and cast them into their eternal punishment.... I turned back and walked and I saw a great sea. But I thought that it was a sea of water. I discovered that it was entirely a sea of flame like a slime which casts forth much flame and whose waves burn sulphur and bitumen... I saw all the souls sinking in it. I saw some whose hands were bound to their neck, with their hands and feet being fettered. I said, 'Who are these?' He said to me, 'These are the ones who were bribed and they were given gold and silver until the souls of men were led astray.' And I saw others covered with mats of fire. I said, 'Who are these?' He said to me, 'These are the ones who give money at interest, and they receive interest for interest.' And I saw some blind ones crying out" (Apocalypse of Zephaniah 4:7, 6:1-2, 10:4-8; written in the first century AD).
"Many will come from the east and the west, and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. But the subjects of the kingdom will be thrown outside, into the outer darkness (eis to skotos to exóteron), where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth (ho klauthmos kai ho brugmos tón odontón).... The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. They will throw them into the fiery furnace (kaminon tou puros), where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth (ho klauthmos kai ho brugmos tón odontón). Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father... It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire (to pur to aiónion)... It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of Gehenna (eis tén geennan tou puros).... When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats ... Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire (eis to pur to aiónion) prepared for the devil and his angels' ... Then they will go away to eternal punishment (eis kolasin aiónion), but the righteous to eternal life" (Matthew 8:11-12,13:41-43, 18:8-9, 25:31-32, 41, 46; written in the late first century AD).
"They [the Essenes] believe that every soul is immortal (psukhén pasan men aphtharton), but that only the souls of the righteous receive other bodies ... while those of the wicked are punished with an everlasting punishment (aidiói timória kolazesthai)....[The Sadducees] do not believe in an immortal soul and the punishments (timórias) and rewards in Hades" (Josephus, Bellum Judaicum, 163, 165; written in the laste first century AD).
"The rich man also died and was buried. In Hades, where he was in torment (huparkhón en basanois), he looked up and saw Abraham far away with Lazarus by his side. So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this flame (odunómai en té phlogi tauté) ... in this place of torment (eis ton topon touton tés basanou)" (Luke 16:22-24, 28; written in the late first century AD)
"And the earth shall give up those who are asleep in it, and the chambers shall give up the souls which have been committed to them. And the Most High shall be revealed upon the seat of judgment, and compassion shall pass away, and patience shall be withdrawn, but judgment alone shall remain, truth shall stand, and faithfulness shall grow strong. And recompense shall follow, and the reward shall be manifested; righteous deeds shall awake, and unrighteous deeds shall not sleep. Then the pit of torment (lacus tormenti) shall appear, and opposite it shall be the place of rest; and the furnace of Gehenna (clibanus Gehennae) shall appear, and opposite it the Paradise of delight. Then the Most High will say to the nations that have been raised from the dead, 'Look now, and understand whom you have denied ... Look on this side and on that; here are delight and rest, and there are fire and torments (ignis et tormenta)" (4 Ezra 7:32-38; written in the late first century AD).
"Then those who have now abused my ways shall be amazed, and those who have rejected them with contempt shall dwell in torments (cruciamentis). For as many as did not acknowledge me in their lifetime, although they received my benefits, and as many as scorned my Law while they still had freedom, and did not understand but despised it while an opportunity for repentance was still open to them, these must in torment (in crucimento) acknowledge it after death (post mortem cognoscere). Therefore, do not continue to be curious as to how the ungodly will be punished (impii cruciabuntur), but inquire how the righteous will be saved" (4 Ezra 9:9-13).
"If anyone worships the beast and his image and receives his mark on the forehead or on the hand, he, too, will drink of the wine of God's fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. He will be tormented with fire and sulphur (basanisthésetai en puri kai theió) in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment rises forever and ever (ho kapnos tou basanismou autón eis aiónas aiónón). There is no rest day or night (ouk ekhousin anapausin hémeras kai nuktos) for those who worship the beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name... And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur (eis tén limnén tou pur kai theió), where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever (basanisthésontai hémeras kai nuktos eis tous aiónas ton aiónón)... And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire (eis tén limnén tou puros)" (Revelation 14:9-11, 20:10-15; written in c. AD 95).
"The time is coming which will remain forever, and there is the new world which does not carry back to corruption those who enter into its beginning, and which has no mercy on those who come into torment or those who are living in it, and it does not carry to perdition. For those are the ones who will inherit this time of which it is spoken, and to these is the heritage of the promised time. These are they who prepared for themselves treasures of wisdom ... for the coming world will be given to these, but the habitation of many others will be in the fire" (2 Baruch 44:12-15; written in the late first century or early second century AD).
"And it came to pass when the sun was setting, and behold a smoke like that of a furnace ... and behold, in this light a fiery Gehenna was enkindled, and a great crowd in the likeness of men. They all were changing in aspect and shape, running and changing form and prostrating themselves and crying aloud words I did not know...[And the Eternal, Mighty One said:] I will burn with fire those who mocked them and ruled over them in this age and I will deliver those who have covered me with mockery over to the scorn of the coming age. Because I have prepared them to be food for the fire of Hades, and to be ceaseless soaring in the air of the underworld of the uttermost depths, to be the contents of a wormy belly ... for they shall putrefy in the belly of the crafty worm Azazel, and be burned by the fire of Azazel's tongue" (Apocalypse of Abraham 15:1, 6-7, 31:2-6; written in the second century AD).
"And over against that place I saw another, squalid, and it was the place of punishment; and those who were punished there and the punishing angels had their raiment dark like the air of the place. And there were certain ones there hanging by the tongue: and these were the blasphemers of the way of righteousness; and under them lay fire, burning and punishing them. And there was a great lake, full of flaming mire, in which were certain men that pervert righteousness, and tormenting angels afflicted them. And there were also others, women, hanged by their hair over that mire that bubbled up, and these were they who adorned themselves for adultery; and the men who mingled with them in the defilement of adultery, were hanging by the feet and their heads in that mire. And I said: I did not believe that I should come into this place.... And near those there were again women and men gnawing their own lips, and being punished and receiving a red-hot iron in their eyes, and these were they who blasphemed and slandered the way of righteousness....And others again near them, women and men, burning and turning themselves and roasting: and these were they that leaving the way of God" (Apocalypse of Peter 20-23, 27, 33; written around the middle of the second century AD).
"He shall raise all men from the dead, and appoint some to be incorruptible, immortal, and free from sorrow in the everlasting and imperishable kingdom; but shall send others away to the everlasting punishment of fire (eis kolasin aiónion puros)" (Justin Martyr, Dialogue with Trypho, 117.3; written in c. AD 155).
"Each man goes to everlasting punishment (aiónian kolasin) or salvation according to the value of his actions. If all men knew this, no one would choose wickedness even for a little, knowing that he goes to the everlasting punishment of fire (aiónian dia puros katadikén); but would by all means restrain himself, and adorn himself with virtue" (Justin Martyr, 1 Apology 12.1-2).
"Even when the martyrs were so torn by whips that the internal structure of their flesh was visible as far as the inner veins and arteries, they endured so patiently that even the bystanders had pity and wept. But they themselves reached such a level of bravery that not one of them uttered a cry or a groan, thus showing to us all that at the very hour when they were being tortured (basanizomenoi) the martyrs of Christ were absent from the flesh, or that the Lord was conversing with them. And turning their thoughts to the grace of Christ they despised the tortures (basanón) of this world, purchasing at the cost of one hour an exemption from eternal punishment (tén aiónion kolasin)....But Polycarp said: 'You threaten with a fire that burns only briefly and after just a little while is extinguished, for you are ignorant of the fire of the coming judgment and eternal punishment (to tés mellouses kriseós kai aióniou kolaseós pur), which is reserved for the ungodly' " (Martyrdom of Polycarp 2:2-3, 11:2; written c. AD 155-160).
"Then you will see that though your lot of on earth, God lives in heaven, then you will begin to declare the mysteries of God ... and condemn the deceit and error of the world, when you realize what the true life in heaven is, when you despise the apparent death here on earth, when you fear the real death, which is reserved for those who will be condemned to the eternal fire (katakrithésomenois eis to pur to aiónion) which will punish (kolasei) to the very end those delivered to it" (Epistle to Diognetus 10:7; written in the middle of the second century AD).
"Among those who had denied [Christ] was a woman of the name of Biblias. The devil, thinking that he had already swallowed her, and wishing to damn her still more by making her accuse falsely, brought her forth to punishment (kolasin), and employed force to constrain her, already feeble and spiritless, to utter accusations of atheism against us. But she, in the midst of the tortures, came again to a sound state of mind, and awoke as it were out of a deep sleep; for the temporary suffering (tés proskairou timorias) reminded her of the eternal punishment in Gehenna (tén aiónion en Geennéi kolasin), and she contradicted the accusers of Christians, saying, 'How can children be eaten by those who do not think it lawful to partake of the blood of even brute beasts?' And after this she confessed herself a Christian" (Epistle From the Church of Lyons and Vienna, 1.25; written in c. AD 177-178).