by highdose 12 Replies latest jw friends
This is a man who had cold callers coming to his home. At first nothing could be legaly done about it, but now it can and house holders now have a legal right to refuse cold callers coming to their home and by law this must be obeyed.
I wonder what impact this will have on the JW's and also their policy of calling once a year even if they have been told not to???
Here in my area of the US we can have our names be put on a list not to have telemarketers call us. It only lasts a year and then we have to renew it online with the state I live in. So I wonder if that concept will be used to not make this forever and forever.
I wish the U.S. would get more serious with the Do Not Call lists.
I want to research this idea. Perhaps others know already. The local property mananger said JWs and commercial cos cannot solicit here b/c we are not on a public road. Isn't your house private property? I'm not certain about sidewalks. My stairs are private. If they are poorly maintained I can be sued. Shouldn't this stop the Witness work?
They can scream from a public street but don't they trespass if they come to private property.
In Ny, I lived in a large apt. building. The units were enclosed within one entrance. The door was secured by a system that only tenants could access. When they came, I demanded to know which tenant let them in. If a tenant let them in, they are guests. Otherwise, they are trespassing. I informed them of the above and they promptly left.
The witlesses will make exemptions for themselves--no matter what. Even if they go so far as to harass a known apostate so many times that they get themselves pepper sprayed because of their stubborn refusal to take "Not interested" for an answer. And, if they are willing to pull that stupidity, they are as likely to get themselves shot, a dog sicced on them, or arrested and imprisoned for the same stupidity.
I wish I could find a copy of the actual law. Anyone able to post it?
This man's case had several unwanted calls. The JWs seem to abide when a general public householder declines, marking the house as a do not call.
What I wonder is if a fading JW or a disfellowshipped JW can use this law to keep the elders away. The elders keep calling & calling, looking into windows, unannounced visits... all despite the ex-JW saying that they are not interested anymore. The elders even have yearly "visits" to disfellowshipped people to make sure they don't want to rejoin. I think this law may provide help in these situations. It's worth a try. Sounds like there is criminal sanctions and the losing party has to pay attorneys fees to the winning party. Get the elder locked up & the Watch Tower pay the fees! Wouldn't that be a hoot!
Skeeter
I would love to see the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Practice law used against the Dubs, but I think it is one hell of a stretch to get it to work in reality.
This law is designed to stop commercial concerns from exactly the kind of irritating marketing the poor guy in the news story suffered.
The WT would claim first of all they are not a commercial concern selling anything. We know that is a lie, but the Courts would have to use the utmost skill to uncover that, at the end, it is a selling scam.
Assuming you get over that hurdle, you then have to show that the same company cold-called you, and I bet the WT could call you on that, each congregation in their set-up is an independant to a great degree (when it suits them, and a lie anyway) so if a"brother" was visiting your Congo, but knocking where you live, he would not actually be from the same "Company". Do you know which Congo. the caller is associated with ? and so on Ad Nauseum.
Sadly, though this law in reality is designed to stop the JW's method of marketing, i.e bloody irritating cold calls, I think if you went to law you would have one helluva uphill struggle to make it work.
Nothing to stop you quoting it in a letter to the Elders though, in addition to anything else you wish to mention, the Human Rights Act, whatever, most Elders are legally illiiterate, if not illiterate in a general sense, and will shit a brick when you threaten action based on several Acts of Parliament.
Once they set foot on private property, I think they can be prosecuted. Maybe you need a warning sign. Deliveries are done by invitation. Peering into windows constitutes something much more serious. I'm not clear why they would track down someone who left.
I never know what to do. When I threaten the police (and I would but they leave), I feel bad b/c I once did what they do. Public forums have First Amendment protection. Private property does not.
I saw it earlier but cant find it now,
but i think blondie posted a link a couple of years ago about a case in australia where a householder succesfully sued for damages against JWs calling when she was on the do not call list.
oz
Parliamentary Note from July 2010 on setting up 'no cold calling zones' - google this phrase for more info
http://www.parliament.uk/briefingpapers/commons/lib/research/briefings/snha-05632.pdf
Cold calling or doorstep selling refers to a salesperson making an unsolicited call for the first time at a person’s home to sell goods or services face-to-face. Constituents often complain about the unscrupulous tactics used by some salesmen, resulting in them being pressured into buying goods or services they did not want.
In the UK, there is no law to prevent cold calling. However, all traders must comply with the Cancellation of Contracts Made in a Consumer’s Home or Place of Work etc Regulations 2008 or face prosecution by Trading Standards. This note provides information on this legislation.
It is also possible for a local community to set-up its own ‘no cold calling zone’. This is where local residents work with their local authority Trading Standards Office and the police to stop uninvited salespeople from calling at homes in a designated street or area. This note also provides information on how this scheme works in practice.
On the trespassing issue... the Society claims that a JW is not supposed to trespass (wink wink)... and has made clear in letters to the congregation and the elders that WTLegal is not going to back a JW that does. But how many die-hard j-dubs do you think are still ignoring the "No Trespassing" signs? (Theocratic warfare, "god's work," "urgent message" blah blah).
As far as I know, the law allows access to a property as long as a person stays on the sidewalk and/or the driveway. No trespassing starts at the sign. If the sign is on the house, that doesn't cover the sidewalk, it covers the house. If there is a fence around the yard and the sign is at the gate, then it starts there -- do not go inside the gate.
Things are different if you have an implied invitation. An example of an implied invitation is the mailbox on the house. Of course the mail carrier has the right (and invitation) to cross the no trespassing sign. I am a bill collector for a contractor for the local cable company. I ignore the no trespassing signs all the time. Why? I have an implied invitation -- either because the person is a customer or I have to access their yard to get to our connections. If I have a work order in my hand -- even if the customer did not request my visit (i.e., they did not pay their bill now I need to collect money or equipment), I still have the right to go on the porch, sidewalk, driveway and contact the person. If I need to do the actual disconnection, then because it is a utility, the utility easement gives me right to access the pole or pedestal in the yard, even if I have to climb the fence to get to it -- though we do try to contact the homeowner first. (There is supposed to be unfettered access to the utility lines, but people fence them in all the time.) Thankfully, I am not the one that must do the disconnection so I can pass the work order to someone who does. Pisses people off when we "trespass" to cut off their cable. Sometimes police have to be called to force access.
When it comes to the witnesses -- If the sidewalk or driveway is not blocked with a locked gate and/or a no trespassing sign, then the witnesses -- or anyone for that matter -- have an implied invitation. If the gate is locked and/or a sign is posted -- then the JWs have no legal right to be there. By the way -- the "Do Not Visit" list in most congregations is one of the most poorly maintained records in the congregation.
The dubs no longer bother me. I put the word out to leave me the hell alone and they are. I do not have a sign posted but if they start bothering me again I will get one and post it at the end of my driveway.
Snakes (Rich -- of the "JWs don't trespass on my property anymore" Sheep Class)
