Who are the Pharisees today?

by dothemath 20 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Awen
    Awen

    I'm reminded of Mark 2:27 "Then Jesus said to them, "The Sabbath was made to meet the needs of people, and not people to meet the requirements of the Sabbath."

    To me this means the sabbath was meant as a benefit to man and wasn't meant to be burdensome, yet some religious leaders of the day took an event that was all about compassion and turned it into something entirely different.

    Jesus repeatedly healed people on the sabbath, showing that life and the overall health of a person is more important than a law. If a law or rule puts a person's life in jeopardy, then the law could and should be dispensed with in that instance.

    Yet the religious rulers of the day (like the Governing Body) saw that the adherence to a rule was more important than human life, which is in direct opposition of God's love and compassion.

    I think the following verses sum up the Governg Body attitude.

    Matthew 23:1-7 1 Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples, 2"The teachers of religious law and the Pharisees are the official interpreters of the law of Moses. 3So practice and obey whatever they tell you, but don't follow their example. For they don't practice what they teach. 4They crush people with unbearable religious demands and never lift a finger to ease the burden.

    5"Everything they do is for show. On their arms they wear extra wide prayer boxes with Scripture verses inside, and they wear robes with extra long tassels. 6And they love to sit at the head table at banquets and in the seats of honor in the synagogues. 7They love to receive respectful greetings as they walk in the marketplaces, and to be called ‘Rabbi.'

    Matthew 23:13 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to."

  • Broken Promises
    Broken Promises

    JuanMiguel, you are taking the use of "Pharisee" far too literally.

    The JW's use "Pharisee" to represent the legalistic sect of Jews at the time who took the Law over and above how it was meant to be applied.

    It was when we were studying the Greatest Man book for the second or third time that I started to see how similar the Pharisees of Jesus' time were to the legalistic WTS and elders. It's funny how their own literature contributed to my departure.

  • wobble
    wobble

    The parallel between the Pharisees condemned in scripture and the GB of JW's and their minions is absolute.

    Nobody is using the term to include descendants of the original Pharisees, anymore than when I call someone with no appreciation for the arts a "Philistine" am I calling any attention to their ancestral heritage, or genealogy.

    Jehovah's Witnesses are modern day Pharisees.

  • JuanMiguel
    JuanMiguel

    While some people on this board may still be Jehovah's Witnesses I can understand that they would be using the term as you mention, Broken Promises. But outside the Watchtower it is not considered appropriate at all.

    Since all Jews today are of the Pharisee denomination, you are saying that anyone who is legalistic or hypocritical should be labeled a "Jew," and that is insulting. Jews as a whole are not legalistic and hypocritical.

    In fact, using the term "pharisee" to describe a person in the way as it is being discussed here is considered bigotry, considered as much a slur as using the "N-word" inappropriately or using an anti-gay slur. As a Wikipedia article on the "Pharisees" brings out:

    "has come into semi-common usage in English to describe a hypocritical and arrogant person.... Jews today who subscribe to Pharisaic Judaism typically find this insulting and some consider the use of the word to be anti-Semitic. [27]"

    According to the posting guidelines we are to avoid inciting hatred on the basis of race and religion and/or nationality, using hate-speech or making obscene or vulgar comments. Having family members who are Jewish I thought I should let you know that this kind of speech qualifies as such to them and to most people.

    We might not realize certain things when we leave the Watchtower because there is no school for ex-Witnesses on all the "how's, what's, and why's" of the world we have to live in. I'm merely trying to pass on something that apparently you folks don't know yet.

  • Broken Promises
    Broken Promises

    Since all Jews today are of the Pharisee denomination, you are saying that anyone who is legalistic or hypocritical should be labeled a "Jew," and that is insulting. Jews as a whole are not legalistic and hypocritical.

    No one is saying that at all!

    Maybe it's a problem of cultural interpretation, but you are taking the use of "Pharisee" far too literally. The use of the term in the context that Witnesses use it is being correctly used on this board.

    We understand what it means, in the context it was being used, regardless of what it may mean to non-JWs.

  • JuanMiguel
    JuanMiguel

    I understand your position, but I still totally disagree. It is still a practice of the Jehovah's Witnesses and it is still considered as hate speech by those who are not. There is no other use but the literal that is acceptable to people today. I can't help it if you don't want to believe that it is considered anti-semitic to continue to do this.

    I thought I was being helpful but apparently I don't see things like many on this board do. I am very new to this and honestly I don't understand. Since this is the way it conducts itself and the type of speech it allows, I have no place being here.

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento
    Since all Jews today are of the Pharisee denomination, you are saying that anyone who is legalistic or hypocritical should be labeled a "Jew," and that is insulting. Jews as a whole are not legalistic and hypocritical.

    I don't knwo why you would think that ALL the Jews today were from the Pharisee denomination, perhaps all the Rabbinc Jews or perhaps the Hassidic ones too, but not ALL the Jews.

    I am sure there are many Jews that would take "offense" with that.

  • wobble
    wobble

    Hey JuanMiguel !

    Don't be so sensitive ! yes we often say things as a kind of "shorthand" and I agree that in today's politically correct atmosphere we should be more careful, and you are right, by using "pharisee" in the pejoritive way we have, we could give offense.

    What you have to realise is that the majority of us on here only ever had a"JW" education, in other words, we know nothing but judgementalism and predjudice until we leave, our use of the word "pharisee" that way is a hang over from JW days, and is as wrong as other no longer acceptable terms,which I cannot bring myself to write.

    What we should have done is explain our use as being the same as that of Jesus (though it is thought that Pharisee is found in the text where another word was used before in earlier MSS, showing a growing misuse of the name, as "Jew" was later).

    I do not believe anyone on here is anti-semitic, we are simply anti -WT !

    But the point of the thread is valid, what Jesus accused some of the Pharisees of, not all , just hypocritical ones, is what we accuse the WT of today. Those same types, who were not all Pharisees but came from many sects, were condemned by their fellow Israelites too, Jesus was not unique in that.

    I value your insights and contributions here, just allow us to be corrected. If you were not here, who would have brought this to our attention ?

    Please turn your face back to us.

  • TD
    TD

    Out of all the various Jewish parties that flourished during the Second Temple period, only the Pharisees survived the Jewish-Roman war as an identifiable continuing entity. The semi-monastic Essenes eventually died out, the Sadducees were all but wiped out in the fall of Jerusalem and the last of the Zealots were crushed at Masada.

    The Pharisees are in a very real sense, the fathers of modern Rabbinic Judaism and this is affirmed without apology by modern Jewish scholars:

    "Pharisaic Judaism became normative Judaism. Its principal features — the synagogue, the rabbi, prayer, Torah study, and belief in the oral law — became the modes of religious expression guiding Jewish life ever since. All Jewish life today, therefore, stems from the Pharisaic tradition and derives its central religious characteristics from it." (Eckstein, Yehiel, What Christians Should Know About Jews and Judaism. Word Books 1984, p. 258.)

    It's certainly true that Jesus had sharp disagreements with Pharisees, but you have to understand that at the time there were two competing schools of Pharisaic thought. These were the liberal Bet Hillel and the hardline Bet Shammai. In Rabbinic literature, one story goes like this:

    "A Gentile came to Shammai with the strange request that he be taught the entire Torah, but that it be done during the time he could stand on one foot. Shammai, a surveyor by trade, chased him away, swinging a cubit stick. When this Gentile approached Hillel with the same request, instead of being scolded for such an impudent demand, he was told, "What is hateful to you, do not to your fellowman. This is the entire Torah. All the rest is commentary — now go and study.""

    The parallels with Hillel’s statement are readily recognized in Jesus’ statement in Matthew 7:12 and Paul’s "summary" in Galatians 5:14. Hillel's negative formulation of Jesus' Golden Rule is sometimes referred to as the "Silver Rule". It, in turn, is derived from even earlier Jewish tradition: "Do to no one what you would not want done to you." (Tobit 4:15)

    In the controversy stories, Jesus time after time, advocates the position of normative Judaism. Who and what he was actually arguing against has been lost in history and is very perplexing today:

    "The case is more dubious for Matthew, a gospel which is commonly dated in the 80's or 90's at a time when the Pharisees appear to have risen in prominence and power (though to what extent remains debatable), and a time when the relationship between Jews and Jewish Christians collapsed. That late first-century setting provides a possible Sitz im Leben for Matthew's gospel, which suggest to many scholars that rather than providing historical information about the Pharisees of Second Temple Judaism, Matthew's portrayal of the Pharisees is really a representation of the Jewish leadership toward the end of the first century." (Neusner, Jacob; Chilton, Bruce In Quest of the Historical Pharisees Baylor University Press 2007 p. 67)

    "The Pharisees never included healing in their list of activities forbidden on the Sabbath; and Jesus’ methods of healing did not involve any of the activities that were forbidden. It is unlikely that they would have disapproved, even mildly, of Jesus’ Sabbath-healing. Moreover, the picture of bloodthirsty, murderous Pharisees given in the Gospels contradicts everything known about them from Josephus, from their own writings, and from the Judaism, still living today, which they created..." (Maccoby, Hyam Revolution in Judea: Jesus and the Jewish Resistance Taplinger Publishing Co. 1980 pp. 11-12)

    "It seems that the Evangelists had little idea about the details of Jewish laws, and only by careful analysis can we establish what lay behind their words. We must note that in all cases in legal debates about Sabbath in the Synoptics, the question of dispute revolves around scribal laws and whether or not the questioning Pharisees know these laws as well as they think they do. The debate about eating in the fields is of this order too. When people pluck out grain, if they then push out the kernel of wheat which is an unusual or rare circumstance (normally wheat is harvested in large amounts with an instrument) they do not violate biblical Sabbath rules." (Basser, Herbert W. Studies In Exegesis: Christian Critiques of Jewish Law and Rabbinic Responses 70-300 C.E. Brill 2000 pp. 26-27)

    "It is an amazing fact that, when we consult the Pharisee law books to find out what the Pharisees actually taught about healing on the sabbath, we find that they did not forbid it, and they even used the very same arguments that Jesus used to show that it was permitted. Moreover, Jesus' celebrated saying, 'The sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath,' which has been hailed so many times as an epoch-making new insight proclaimed by Jesus, is found almost word for word in a Pharisee source, where it is used to support the Pharisee doctrine that the saving of life has precedence over the law of the sabbath. So it seems that whoever it was that Jesus was arguing against when he defended his sabbath healing, it cannot have been the Pharisees." (Maccoby, Hyam The Mythmaker Paul and the Invention of Christianity Barnes & Noble Publishing 1998 pp. 33-34)

    I respect a lot of the Christians here, but for crying out loud... You do realize that what the JW's taught you about the Jews, Pharisees and the Law was utter nonsense?

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento

    I think that a lot of times we tend to forget that when Jesus and the writers of the Gospels made these statements, that there was a reason for them.

    Jesus had issues with the Pharisees AND the scribes that acted like hypocrites and put themselves in the "place" of God and the Law, he din't have issues with every pharisee or Pharisees in General, since it is clear that he had soem supporters in their ranks, just as he had those that were against him.

    The issue with Jesus making statements that seem to go against Pharisee views doesn't mean that those views were NOT held, it just means that their hypocracy was being addressed.

    I take from it that certain Pharisees wanted to put this upsart and his place and were trying to do so by "perverting" the spirit of the Law.

    Jesus called them on it.

    Now, I am curious though, do we have any writings of the pharisees BEFORE 70 AD?

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