by cameo-d 22 Replies latest watchtower bible
On the "word for the day thread" Snowbird posted:
Snowbird: "Molech was the god of the children of Ammon, Chemosh, the children of Moab, YHWH, the children of Israel.
I did not want to mess up the thread, so I decided to start a new one. If the above is true, then:
Molech was the god of the children of YHWH?
Is Jehovah the same as YHWH?
Would this mean Molech is the same as Jehovah?
This has long been my suspicion, Cameo'd.
Jehovah is also the god of the Freemasons and apparantly they are into worshipping a big owl called Molech.
Molech, Baal, Yahweh aka Jehovah, are all one and the same and the JWs worship this particularly unpleasant 'god'.
Amazing what you find out when you start digging up old books that are no longer printed. (I wonder why?)
You may be interested in this reference work:
Molech was the god of the children of YHWH?
That is not what the text you attribute to her states.
BTS
Yeah, I don't see it either. The sentence says:
Molech - Ammonites
Chemosh - Moabites
YHWH - Israelites
Tammy
The specific characteristics of Chemosh are not clear in many respects.
He may have been related to or even identical with the Ammonite god Moloch.
The Moabites, Ammonites, and Israelites were reportedly kinsmen, and the Israelites sometimes worshiped Chemosh, as well as their own national god, Yahweh.
King Solomon dedicated an altar to Chemosh outside of Jerusalem in honor of his Moabite wife.
At times, human sacrifice was dedicated to Chemosh, as it was to Molech and occasionally to Yahweh as well.
http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Chemosh
Also wouldn't this quote below indicate that Chemosh and Moloch are the same deity?
"The etymology of "Chemosh" is unknown. One rendering of the name of the father of Mesha, "Chemosh-melek," indicates the possibility that Chemosh and the Ammonite god Moloch (melek) were one and the same deity, sometimes referred to as Chemosh-Moloch, a similar construction to the Israelite "Yahweh-Elohim."
Why would all these nations worship their gods in the same way by offering human sacrifice? How does this make Yahweh/Jehovah any different from these other deities? Is jehovah just a "rose by some other name"? Are these all one and the same deity but renamed due to different locations and cultures?
"Israelites engaged in human sacrifice as late as the time of the prophet Jeremiah, who says: "They built high places for Baal in the Valley of Ben Hinnom to sacrifice their sons and daughters to Molech, though I never commanded it, nor did it enter my mind." (Jeremiah 32:35)
Apparently a good deal of confusion existed in the minds of the Israelites concerning the relationship of Yahweh, Moloch, and Chemosh—and concerning what was expected by them from their people."
(quoted from same source as above)
I think you answered your own question, Cameo. The people were confused. YHWH did not want human sacrifice, and did consider it abhorrent.
Tammy
Tec,
My questions are still not answered. I think this is still underlying modern day observances and I'd like to get to the bottom of it.
Jeremiah destroyed the cult of Molech during the time that Josiah was king of Judah (639-607 BCE). He also destroyed the sanctuary for Chemosh-Molech in the valley of Hinnom (which was referred to later as Gehenna) that Solomon had built.
However, Jehoiakim reinstated foreign cults; it is anecdotal that Molech was among those cults. These cults were re-established in 607 BCE
I believe they are merely tribal or national variations on a pre-existing God. The Romans were impressed with the Greek gods and adopted them wholesale, changing their names. Zeus became Jupiter,etc. I recently asked about Mecheldizek and his legitimacy as a priest. It seems that basically the same god was worshipped in the region. Abraham starts the line of Jewish gods. YHWH, I am what I am, denotes a god who will not name himself. Naming in these cultures was common in adolescent when personality traits emerged. The baby name was replaced with a real name, often indicating your traits.
I can see how YHWH became impt to our civilization. Jews-Christians-modern society. Maybe He just survived and the others faded. There may been political and social religions for Judaism lasting so long. It is so, so much older than Christianity. The origins of YHWH are murky, pariticularly in the Bible. YHWH does not strike me as the same God who sent Jesus. Jehovah does not remind me of Christ. Vengeful, wacko, blood thirtsy, arrogant, presumptuous, jealous vs. love and grace and mercy.
No one knows.IMO. B/c what did God do before Abraham. There is Noah and other occasional figures but no national group. A New York Times article discussed archaelogical finds in Israel. When Israel was first established, archaeologists flocked there with Bible in hand, convinced they would excavate the details in the OT. They do not exist in large measure. If these places existed, there would be some trail present. An example is the flood thread. Science shows no global flood. Now archaeologists are more detached. Present thinking is that the Bible was commissioned by a powerful later King of Israel. In order to legitimize his rule, he commissioned the Bible. The references to distant figures bind him to the Jews. He wanted legitimacy on a grand scale. Solomon's temple can't be found.
I am writing from memory. It may be false. The gist is what I wrote. Food for thought.
