Christians afraid of Carl Sagan?

by SweetBabyCheezits 63 Replies latest jw friends

  • SweetBabyCheezits
    SweetBabyCheezits

    In looking for a particular reference to Carl Sagan's The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark, I stumbled across this website:

    http://www.crossroad.to/Q&A/Science/sagan.htm

    It appears the page was created as a rebuttal against Carl's book. I read a few comments and found this one particularly interesting.

    Question 2: My daughter got back from her first day back in school, and I found out that one of the books that she is required to read for her high school science class is Demon Haunted World by Carl Sagan. After reading only a single chapter in class, I have noticed that she has started to question many things such as the existence of Witchcraft and Demons and the reliability of the Bible. Could you send me information about this book and ways to fight against its pull since I am afraid to read it for myself?

    Afraid? Really? He's teaching critical thinking skills.

    It reminds me of something else Mr. Sagan once said:

    "One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. The bamboozle has captured us. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back."

  • SweetBabyCheezits
    SweetBabyCheezits

    No Sagan fans?

  • unshackled
    unshackled

    Hey Cheezits....big Sagan fan here. I just started reading The Demon-Haunted World. He is missed and the world sure could use many more like him.

    Absolutely I think most "traditional" Christians would very much be threatened by his world/universe views. He was a rational, critical thinker and was humble in the face of the vastness of the universe. Some of his best words were in Pale Blue Dot, IMO...

    "The earth is a very small stage in a vast cosmic arena....Our posturings, our imagined self-importance, the delusion that we have some privileged position in the universe, are challenged by this point of pale light. Our planet is a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark. In our obscurity -- in all this vastness -- there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves. It is up to us. It's been said that astronomy is a humbling, and I might add, a character-building experience. To my mind, there is perhaps no better demonstration of the folly of human conceits than this distant image of our tiny world. To me, it underscores our responsibility to deal more kindly and compassionately with one another and to preserve and cherish that pale blue dot, the only home we've ever known."

    Some other Sagan gems...

    "I would love to believe that when I die I will live again, that some thinking, feeling, remembering part of me will continue. But as much as I want to believe that, and despite the ancient and worldwide cultural traditions that assert an afterlife, I know of nothing to suggest that it is more than wishful thinking."

    "The idea that God is an oversized white male with a flowing beard, who sits in the sky and tallies the fall of every sparrow is ludicrous. But if by 'God,' one means the set of physical laws that govern the universe, then clearly there is such a God. This God is emotionally unsatisfying... it does not make much sense to pray to the law of gravity."

    "You see, the religious people — most of them — really think this planet is an experiment. That's what their beliefs come down to. Some god or other is always fixing and poking, messing around with tradesmen's wives, giving tablets on mountains, commanding you to mutilate your children, telling people what words they can say and what words they can't say, making people feel guilty about enjoying themselves, and like that. Why can't the gods leave well enough alone? All this intervention speaks of incompetence. If God didn't want Lot's wife to look back, why didn't he make her obedient, so she'd do what her husband told her? Or if he hadn't made Lot such a shithead, maybe she would've listened to him more. If God is omnipotent and omniscient, why didn't he start the universe out in the first place so it would come out the way he wants? Why's he constantly repairing and complaining? No, there's one thing the Bible makes clear: The biblical God is a sloppy manufacturer. He's not good at design, he's not good at execution. He'd be out of business if there was any competition."

  • unshackled
    unshackled

    One of my favorites...never tire of it...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p86BPM1GV8M

  • tec
    tec

    Well, I haven't read the Demon-Haunted World - but that excerpt of the Pale Blue Dot certainly has little to do with science, so I could imagine a parent being concerned if that were the book being studied in science class.

    the delusion that we have some privileged position in the universe,

    And that this is a delusion is only his opinion.

    Tammy

  • sabastious
  • cofty
    cofty

    He was a wonderful example of a man who loved science and reason but in a way that was inspiring and exhilirating.

    His enthusiasm about the marvels of the cosmos was spiritual without the supernatural.

    "The cosmos is within us. We are made of star stuff. We've begun at last to wonder about our origins, star stuff complimenting the stars, organised collections of ten billion billion billion atoms contemplating the evolution of matter, tracing that long by which it arrived at consciousness here on the planet Earth and perhps throughout the cosmos. Our obligation to survive and flourish is owed not just to ourselves but also to that cosmos, ancient and vast, from which we spring."

  • unshackled
    unshackled

    And that this is a delusion is only his opinion.

    Yes but as is the opposite view...only an opinion. Difference is I see Sagan's view as a humble and unassuming one. The view that we do have privileged a position in the universe is presumptous and self-important.

    That aside, that quote is from Pale Blue Dot. The book for the science class noted earlier was The Demon-Haunted World.

  • SweetBabyCheezits
    SweetBabyCheezits

    Thanks for the comments, all. Unshackled & Cofty, I agree with your assessment of the guy.

    And I understand your point, Tammy. What gets me is the parent's comment that he or she was"afraid" to read the book for him/herself. This person demonstrates an almost JW-like fear of questioning his or her cherished beliefs. That, to me, is truly scary.

    By the way, if there's one thing we can agree on, it's Carl's view of the WT Society. It's funny that he was quoted numerous times by the WT but, unfortunately, they missed this one:

    One prominent American religion confidently predicted that the world would end in 1914. Well, 1914 has come and gone, and - while the events of that year were certainly of some importance - the world did not, at least so far as I can see, seem to have ended.
    There are at least three responses that an organized religion can make in the face of such a failed and fundamental prophecy. They could have said, "Oh, did we say '1914'? So sorry, we meant '2014'. A slight error in calculation. Hope you weren't inconvinenced in any way." But they did not.
    They could have said, "Well, the world would have ended, except we prayed very hard and interceded with God so He spared the Earth." But they did not.
    Instead, the did something much more ingenious. They announced that the world had in fact ended in 1914, and if the rest of us hadn't noticed, that was our lookout.
    It is astonishing in the face of such transparent evasions that this religion has any adherents at all. But religions are tough. Either they make no contentions which are subject to disproof or they quickly redesign doctrine after disproof. The fact that religions can be so shamelessly dishonest, so contemptuous of the intelligence of their adherents, and still flourish does not speak very well for the tough-mindedness of the believers. But it does indicate, if a demonstration was needed, that near the core of the religious experience is something remarkably resistant to rational inquiry. [Broca's Brain]
  • unshackled
    unshackled
    There are at least three responses that an organized religion can make in the face of such a failed and fundamental prophecy. They could have said, "Oh, did we say '1914'? So sorry, we meant '2014'. A slight error in calculation. Hope you weren't inconvinenced in any way." But they did not.

    Funny. Ironic thing is I wouldn't be surprised if they did use that line today to buy more time. "Oh did we say Jesus came in 1914...oops, no no. 2014. The last days start NOW. The end will be any minute now."

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