Taking Back the Payment for Sins?

by Ding 28 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Ding
    Ding

    It's my understanding that the WTS teaches that Jesus couldn't have been resurrected in a physical body because that would be taking back the payment made by the ransom sacrifice.

    It's also my understanding that the WTS teaches that people who are not of the 144,000 are not born again and are not under the New Covenant.

    So how is their sin paid for? By their own deaths, right? "The wages of sin is death."

    But by the same logic, then, if those "other sheep" are resurrected bodily from the grave, doesn't that amount to their taking back the payment for their sins?

  • Satanus
    Satanus

    Ooooh. The light turns on. Thanks for presenting this bit of logic that i never put together, before. 'Course, a dvout jw would sidle away from this jewel.

    S

  • lovelylil
    lovelylil

    Hi ding,

    Part of the JW's mistake on Jesus Resurrection is that they have a misunderstanding of 1Corinthians15:50 where it states "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom". The WT society interprets this verse as meaning a literal flesh and blood body. Thus they state Christ could not have been raised bodily to heaven.

    However, in this verse "flesh and blood" refers to mortal man in his sinful nature, not a physical body. This biblical term is also found in these texts which can help you get the proper understanding; Matthew 16:17, Ephesians 6:12.

    We can enter heaven in our bodies, however our bodies must first undergo a change to the new nature. See 1 Corinthians chapter 15.

    The final authority on this matter is Christ himself who fortold the raising of his literal body in the resurrection; John 2:19-21

    19 Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.”

    20 They replied, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and you are going to raise it in three days?” 21 But the temple he had spoken of was his body.

    One last thing, the ransom was paid for our sins through the blood of Christ, not the body of Christ. Christ was raised in his body but his blood was spilled out on the altar as an offering once for all time for our sins. And a bodily resurrection in no way negates the ransom. Another scriptural reference to read is Luke 24:37-42

    Peace to you, Lilly

  • Perry
    Perry

    Ding,

    This really is an amazing piece of logic you have presented here. And, Lilly has nailed a good bit of the misunderstanding deception.

    It's my understanding that the WTS teaches that Jesus couldn't have been resurrected in a physical body because that would be taking back the payment made by the ransom sacrifice.

    I would like to see this WT reasoning in one of their publications. Anyone? If this can be found then it certainly destroys their teaching that a person can "grow to perfection".

    Their scriptural basis is of course the scripture in Romans 6:

    "For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin."

    Then Fred Franz changed the phrase "freed from sin" to "acquitted from sin" in the NWT. And every since then witnesses ran around saying that they had a clean slate when they died.

    The scripture is obviously talking about the benefits of being born again, with a new spirit - sinless; and eventually a new sinless body as well.

    Excellent work!!

  • MrFreeze
    MrFreeze

    The WT misinterpreting something? My goodness! The wonders never seen!

  • bob1999
    bob1999

    "The scripture is obviously talking about the benefits of being born again, with a new spirit - sinless; and eventually a new sinless body as well."

    I agree.

    We were therefore buried with him through baptism

    For we know that our old self was crucified with him

    Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him

    For he that is dead (buried, crucified and died with Christ) is freed from sin.

    The passage is NOT talking about physical death.

    It's taking about those baptized in Christ.

    Nothere in the bible can I find any other way to be saved but to be baptized.

    To have the old man be buried, crucified and die with Christ so that we may be a new creature.

    2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: [ a ] The old has gone, the new is here!

    Galatians 6:15 15 Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything; what counts is the new creation.

    Peace

  • jonathan dough
    jonathan dough

    if those "other sheep" are resurrected bodily from the grave, doesn't that amount to their taking back the payment for their sins?

    Good point.

    Then Fred Franz changed the phrase "freed from sin" to "acquitted from sin" in the NWT. And every since then witnesses ran around saying that they had a clean slate when they died.

    Also true. Amazing that they believe this.

    http://144000.110mb.com/144000/i-4.html#VE

    As difficult as it might be to wrap one’s mind around, the Jehovah’s Witnesses teach that resurrected mankind, roughly 20 billion, are judged based on their deeds or conduct during the thousand year reign, not this life today. For all practical purposes they are starting all over again. They reason that because man is supposedly acquitted of sin at death and that he paid for his sins with the wages of death he cannot be put on judgment for evil deeds committed in this life, only the next life during the thousand year reign. He will be judged based on his obedience to future millennial Law scrolls, divine instruction or laws and regulations (the Watchtower magazine, etc.?) which are intended to educate or enlighten him to perfection.

    Both those who formerly did good things and those who formerly practiced bad things will be “judged individually according to their deeds.“ What deeds? If we were to take the view that people were going to be condemned on the basis of deeds in their past life, that would be inconsistent with Romans 6:7: “He who has died has been acquitted from his sin.” It would also be unreasonable to resurrect people simply for them to be destroyed. So, at John 5:28, 29a, Jesus was pointing ahead to the resurrection; then, in the remainder of verse 29, he was expressing the outcome after they had been uplifted to human perfection and been put on judgment. (Reasoning, 337)

    The Greek word dikaioo means ‘acquittal’ (NWT) or ‘absolved’ (NAB) ‘justified’ (Green’s Literal), or primarily ‘deemed to be right’ (Vine’s, 69). But if you look closely at its use in Romans 6:7 you will notice that the Jehovah’s Witnesses have plucked it out of context as they frequently do and fail to understand the unambiguous meaning of Paul’s discourse. He was referring to a spiritual death to sin for the Christian believer, not the physical, mortal death of all men.

    The Bible is very clear. It is Christ's blood that acquits, not our deaths.

    Paul is defending “the gospel against the charge that it promotes moral laxity” (NAB note 6, 1-11). He refers to having ‘died to sin,’ and that those baptized were baptized into Christ’s death and buried with him. The symbolic death leads to life with Christ. And true believers must think of themselves as being dead to sin. Nothing in those verses can be interpreted to imply a physical death, or that all evil people are acquitted of their sins at death because Paul made it very clear that “…it is reserved for men to die once for all time and after this a judgment” (Heb. 9:27 NWT). The Jehovah’s Witnesses’ misinterpretation would actually encourage moral laxity.

  • Perry
    Perry
    If we were to take the view that people were going to be condemned on the basis of deeds in their past life, that would be inconsistent with Romans 6:7: “He who has died has been acquitted from his sin.” (Reasoning, 337)

    JD,

    I'm glad there a people like you on this board. I am far too emotionally high strung to even touch a Reasoning book. I burned all of my WT literature when I got saved. This is a true story: As the literature was burning, I looked away for a moment and when I looked back at the fire, there was a snake laying in the fire - dead and burning.

    The New World Translation is the most deadly piece of literature ever written. God says there will be a judgment awaiting you after you die. The NWT says you are acquitted when you die.

    It is the garden of eden all over again. Daily we face the same choice that A&E faced. Every day that I get older, I see more and more the incredible importance of faith in God.

  • lovelylil
    lovelylil

    Hi Perry,

    I didn't burn my books but I kept them on the 2nd level of my home so I went upstairs, and I opened the window on trash day and threw them out the window. I then went outside, picked them up and pitched them into the trash truck, where they belong!

    I did this the day after I was born again. Your story reminded me of this.

    I agree with you the NWT is deadly. It keeps people enslaved to a false religion that believes they are serving Christ but are really denying him. I always pray for the Witnesses. Peace, Lilly

  • ProdigalSon
    ProdigalSon

    Wow, that's interesting Perry. So, how do we know what "God" says versus what the NWT says?

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