The King of the North and the King of the South. What gives?

by dgp 29 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  dgp

  If I understood correctly, one of the ideas advanced as proof of Jehovah's witnesses beliefs is that of the Kings of the North and the South. I didn't understand much of it, to a large extent because I think it's nonsense, but something else I did find curious.

  The King of the North was the Soviet Union, and the King of the South were the United States. I am not sure the Soviet Union is "north" of the United States in any sense (think of Alaska), but, that aside, what kind of theological distress resulted when the King of the North crumbled to pieces? And now that China is rising, will it be the new King of the North? What about India? Brazil? Or Russia itself?

  I wonder if the crumbling down of the Soviet Union made one or two Jehovah's witnesses conclude that something was wrong with those beliefs. I can only speculate about the distress someone must have felt when the Berlin wall came down, much to the happiness of the Germans themselves, first, but of everyone interested in freedom.

  I wonder if anyone will give me an opinion. Thanks.
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  DanaBug

  It's hogwash, that's my opinion. Things like this make people blind to the good. Like the Berlin Wall coming down or the end of the Cold War, that was a good thing. Protests in the Middle East are really good for those people if they end up with democratic governments. Instead, you have all these Witnesses wondering if Armageddon is around the corner. What is actually progress is turned into hope for the end of this system and the deaths of millions. Cra-zay.

  Didn't the king of the south include Britain and it was called the Anglo-American world power?
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  Finally-Free

  Eight years ago an elder was speculating out loud while out in service. He speculated the new king of the north could be Iraq or Islam as a whole, or even the UN. I heard a few JWs speculate it could be Iraq when the Gulf war started. Since the crumbling of the Soviet Union the WTS's silence on this has been deafening. Maybe they hope people will forget and the teaching will fade away.

  W
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  shamus100

  ** noo light ** :D

  It's the loch-ness monster. ;D
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  Wasanelder Once

  I read or heard at one point that it is still the "Soviet Union" because Russia is still a dictatorship in reality and that it may push its weight around yet. Kind of like Jesus' return becoming invisible. Ok, um, sure.
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  AnnOMaly

  I wonder if the crumbling down of the Soviet Union made one or two Jehovah's witnesses conclude that something was wrong with those beliefs.

  Possibly, but it doesn't really matter in JW-land because the identities of the kings of the north and south have always been changing anyway. You just have to look at the Daniel's Prophecy book.

  Bible scholars in general tend to limit their interpretation of Dan. 11 to historical events from Alexander to the power struggles between the Seleucids and the Ptolemies to Antiochus Epiphanes, and view the verses from v. 36 as either having future fulfillment or if not, certainly not to be tied down too literally.

  On the other hand, while some interpretations coincide with those of the WTS to start off with, the WTS then treat much of Dan. 11 like Play-Doh to eventually mold with key events from early Bible Student/JW history and the future great tribulation.
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  highdose

  the JW's have a book about Daniels profecy. It features paragraphs in which a mere few words of each scripture are blown into a huge explantion. I used to look at this and think " how can the get all that out of just those few words?"

  Anyway the king of the north and south conventianty changes, and they seem to have picked on rather unknown about kings rather than famous leaders of world powers. They provivde no reasoning for why this or that king must have been the king of the north at any one point, your just expected to belive it.
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  donuthole

  The official company line since the breakdown of the Soviet Union is, "we don't know". If I remember correctly post 9-11, one Bethel heavy (a GB member?) was floating the idea that the King of the North was Islam or Muslim extremists. I hadn't heard the UN mentioned by anyone of note but in the past I did find it a bit interesting that the UN logo is the northen hemisphere with a laurel crown. If I was playing pictionary and had to draw "King of the North" I couldn't think of a more obvious depiction.

  The beginning explanation of the two kings in the Daniel prophecies book follows closely with what other Bible commentators have interpreted for years. With this in mind I always got a kick out of how JW's gushed over the GB's explanations, knowing that any number of Bible commetaries covered the same material. Where the JW version diverges is where it inexplicably jumps from ancient history to the events in modern times, starting with the World Wars.
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  d

  I agre donuthole.I used to hear brothers saying how the violence in the middle east would soon start coming here.
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  Black Sheep

  Search the WTCD for 'north bloc'

  You will find several articles that state what was being taught in that era.

  Many, if not all, of the articles state who the king of the north is without the usual loopholes ... it seems ... it appears ... evidently ... etc..

  Get your Dub to read them to you. You shut up. Just ask them to explain them. Don't do it for them. If they break a rule of grammar to weasel their way out, ask them to justify it.