Who converts and Why? SURVEY - Please contribute

by Murray Smith 40 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Murray Smith
    Murray Smith

    I've read some random articles of late and have found a recurring factor which could well be answered effectively by many of the posters here

    Basically the notion relates to what makes one vulnerable to indoctrination into a high-control religious cult and goes lke this . . .

    While most, if not all humans seek group approval and association to some degree . . . those who fully convert to a high-control cult often show a similar common characteristic. It seems to be the product of an absence of parenting factors particularly during adolescent and post-adolescent development. This absence of parenting factors can be precipitated by a whole raft of individually diverse influences and come in various forms . . . but it's critical effect is that it slows the progress of young adult individuality.

    This slowing in turn extends the need for the presence of these parenting factors well out into young adult life. The young adult still feels unsure about his place in the world and feels most comfortable when those parenting factors (rules, regulations, absolutes, boundaries, authority, control etc) are present, thus making him/her subconsciously attracted to a high-control environment.

    In order to test this notion, I want to ask . . .

    Who among us can cite where a poor parental environment during adolescence, post adolescence may have had this effect? Simply put . . . what sort of relationship did you have with your parent(s) . . . was it close and open . . . or distant and interrupted . . . did you constantly feel the security of thier guiding hand or was this period confusing and lonely? Obviously this question is for the once-converted and may stir uncomfortable memories

    Nevertheless . . . hopefully the thread might show a commonality if it exists . . . so if you could attest to your experience as well as offer theories/opinions we might get an answer.

    Thanks for your contribution!

    Luvonyall

  • Amelia Ashton
    Amelia Ashton

    If I was looking for anyone to blame other than myself I would happily accredit my conversion to jwdom on bad parenting.

    This is the abridged version!

    My father was a Commander in the Royal Navy so absent for most of my very young years. I have no memory of him prior to 6 years old and after then just him shouting at me and my brother for various misdemeanors. The main one being not wearing our slippers?!!!

    I have memories of being scared of my Mother from a very young age and my favourite hiding place was the vegetable cupboard. I remember the smell of that cupboard to this day. I was always hungry and would steal Winalot dog biscuits while I was in there and eat them. I collected conkers and acorns and ate them too. My Mother's favourite place to smack was around the side of the head. I can still remember the pain on my ears and the dizziness. It seemed to last hours but maybe that's just cos I was young.

    I have a younger brother of 16 months and I remember him being born.

    At 8 years old he was diagnosed with dyslexia but prior to that my parents just thought he was "slow". His "slowness" was not apparent to me when playing etc but manifested itself when they were teaching him to learn colours, tell the time and reading and writing.

    We had a serving hatch connecting the kitchen to the dining room and various items would be placed there for my brother. He would be promised gifts if able to remember a tomato was red for eg. or if the big hand of the clock was at 6 he would get a watch! They already had the watch and showed it to him as an incentive. It worked. I had to wait until my next birthday for my first watch.

    He was the golden boy and it wasn't til we were both adults that he admitted he knew it. I got punished for his naughtiness either blamed directly for something broken as if I had broken it myself or if he confessed then I was punished for not stopping him from being naughty. He was a typical boy in that he liked to take things apart! I was punished a lot.

    When we were living in Norway and I was about 11 years old I was really struggling with life. We still had to take the 11 plus exam even though we were abroad and I passed even though my parents told me I wouldn't because I was thick. I was thrilled but I was not allowed to tell anyone because they said it was not an important exam out there and no-one would be interested! Also, they didn't want to upset my brother because he would not be able to pass it. Definitely no pressie either.

    At going home time I used to hide in the girls toilets hoping to be accidently locked in all night and then I wouldn't have to go home. One time I was caught by the headmistress Miss Stark and she got out of me why I did it. I told her my parents didn't love me only my brother. She convinced me that my parents did really love me and to tell my parents how I felt. Big mistake. That was the day my relationship with my parents really started to go downhill and the name calling got worse. Their dislike and contempt for me and favouritism for my brother intensified.

    I hated my life and felt I didn't belong anywhere. When we returned to England at age 12 I was sent to boarding school. A convent run by nuns. It was better than being at home. I grew to dread holidays. Because I didn't live at home except for the hols my parents converted my bedroom into a veterinary licensed and approved dog whelping room. I put up a z-bed at night and slept with the dogs. Trying to avoid the dog poo first thing in the morning was a nightmare but I loved the dogs and the puppies.

    I would notice that my brother always had lots of new things each time I came home from boarding school. I plucked up the courage to question why he got new stuff and I didn't and I was told I didnt get anything because I wasn't there.

    I left school with 10 0'levels with good grades, good enough to go on to college and eventually study to become a veterinary surgeon. My parents said no, I had to get a job. They said they were not prepared to support me financially for another 6 years. I got a very poorly paid job doing menial tasks and left home.

    After 4 years of working these different rubbish jobs I hated including bar-work I met a boy. He was a liar and thief and women beater but I didn't find out any of this till after I found out I was pregnant. He told me he loved me and this was the very first time anyone had ever said those words to me ever. I was 19 and naive. The last time he beat me I went into work with my jaw so badly bruised I couldn't speak. One of the girls phoned my parents and told them if they didn't get me away from him he would probably kill me.

    Back home they made my life hell again. Especially my Mother. I lived in a small holiday caravan in the garden. I tried to kill myself when my daughter was 6 months old. I couldn't take any more. After coming out of hospital I was told to stop being a misery guts and pull myself together. I had made my bed and now I had to lie in it.

    I found a room to rent that was quite cheap so moved out again. We had 1 room in a house and I was told about Council Housing and that I might be eligible to apply. Three years later I was allocated a 1 bedroom flat. I moved in with nothing but some second hand furniture and realised that this was my life now. No parole, no time off for good behaviour. I earned very little money, was an unmarried Mum and because this was only the 80s, a dirty girl and the scum of the earth.

    I saw no way out of my circumstances other than a miracle. I bought a Bible and started to read it and pray.

    A couple of weeks later, maybe even less, there was a knock at my door. It was Jehovah's Witnesses. It was a man who had been a subordinate to my Father when he was in the Navy in Norway and he remembered me. This was way too many coincidences to be anything other than the miracle I had been praying for.

    A study was started.

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    I was born into so the people who gave me food, shelter, and could kill me brought me up. My brother became a Maoist only a few years after we left the Witnesses. My father was an extremely abusive former Bethelite. He was attending a convention near PIttsburgh when some Bethelites noticed his size and strength. Indeed, he grew up in a mining town and did the prep work, shoring up the mines for the actual miners. He was Russian and a trye violent tyrant. My earliest memory is of my father beating my father. His craziest can be summed up in three little vignettes: 1. at the time of his death, we were engaged in a struggle b/c he insisted on making me leave my top academic position in high school to bag groceries so he could control me. A foster home was waiting for me. 2. he kicked dogs in the head down cellar stairs. Little breeds. He did not kick German Shepherds, Rotweilers or pit bulls. Even if he did not kick dogs in the head, dogs came out of nowhere to nip him. 3. when my brother was three, he took us a special county park with one of the steepest mountains (hills) in NJ that overlooked a panaroma view of Manhattan. He dangled my brother who has cerebral palsy and was wearing very heavy metal braces on his legs. My brother screeched in utter terror. And a bonus 4. A Roman Catholic nun was brutally raped in a local Catholic church during off hours. The whole neighborhood was upset. As he drove my mom and a friend to work, a Catholic friend, he stated that the nun deserved it for being a nun.

    My brother was so fortunate. He was accepted at the University of Chicago on scholarship. To be fair, my parents never said I could not do school being female but they realized how my brother would be severely limited by heavy labor such as they did. We were working poor and isolated. It was a big family achievement. My brother adores academic life. My mother, while loving, was ineffectual. No provision was made for him to bond with any positive male role model. This Maoist group only existed at Columbia, where I saw them, Chicago and Berkeley. He was no longer himself. I'd seek out Communist book stores in Manhattan. The very leftist shop refused to carry the newspaper of his group, telling me how extreme they were. The strongest remarks concerning his involvement came not from conservatives but SDS and other bona fide groups. He parroted their sayins. No independent thought was left. The literature's English was so perfect and so stilted, no native speaker wrote it.

    He became very secretive yet would occasionally appear to freeload. Working in factories, the money just was sent to his cell. After decades he left but we don't know why b/c he will not reveal anything. It was a very sad day when we sat and discussed how we must telephone the FBI and local police if we overheard any hint of violence. This was during the 1960s and early 1970s when leftist bombings were frequent.

    The New York Times reported on a major survey yesterday involving the lack of critical thinking skills among American college students. College is now viewed as a social arena. I studied five hours for every single class. They study an average of five hours a week in all subjects. Remediation for high school work is now the major focus of colleges. Colleges main mission was not to teach facts but, rather, to teach critical thinking skills. Modern students cannot evaluate opinion from factual pieces. It does not bode well for staying out of cults.

  • Pahpa
    Pahpa

    There are probably many reasons why people join a sect. One of the

    leading ones is vulnerability because of some emotional event in

    one's life. A person in this stage seeks out answers and turns to a

    source of comfort. Often, a sect provides for these immediate needs.

    The support of the members who have had similar experiences tend

    to fortify the whole belief system upon which it is based. It becomes

    "the truth."

  • MrFreeze
    MrFreeze

    I was raised in the JW's. Childhood indoctrination. Didn't stick though...

  • Murray Smith
    Murray Smith

    Hey . . . a hearty thanks to you who have contributed thus far.

    I would emphasise this however . . . this thread is not about attributing blame . . . the absence of parenting factors have many reasons most of which cannot be fairly laid solely at the feet of parents.

    Additionally, there are other factors beyond the scope of parenting factors which also contribute heavily to the vulnerability to conversion.

    I believe however, that understanding fully just how these factors contribute can greatly assist in understanding the conversion process for the ultimate purpose of helping those adversly affected by this very dangerous cult.

    Please continue to offer your experience/opinion . . . personal details will be treated with utmost discretion outside of this discussion

    Thanks again.

    Luvonyall

  • ziddina
    ziddina

    Like MrFreeze, I was raised in the cult, against my will...

    However, my idiot parents who were the ones who joined as adults, both came from extremely destructive homes. My mother's father sexually molested her half-sister while the two girls were sleeping in the same bed. This went on for years, until the ugly secret came out. My mother claimed that she was the one who exposed the situation; if she did so, I can only surmise [from her subsequent behavior...] that she did so out of jealousy over the extra attention that her own father was showing to a girl who wasn't even his daughter.

    My father's parents fought constantly - there were extensive incidents of wife-beating in the home; furniture was broken, pets abused and, I believe, killed. When he was 4 or 5, he nearly died of a bad case of diarrhea and neglect; with 12 children to look after, his mother was overwhelmed and didn't notice he was sick until it was nearly too late.

    As to the description that you gave:

    "It seems to be the product of an absence of parenting factors particularly during adolescent and post-adolescent development. This absence of parenting factors can be precipitated by a whole raft of individually diverse influences and come in various forms . . . but it's critical effect is that it slows the progress of young adult individuality. ..."
    "This slowing in turn extends the need for the presence of these parenting factors well out into young adult life. The young adult still feels unsure about his place in the world and feels most comfortable when those parenting factors (rules, regulations, absolutes, boundaries, authority, control etc) are present, thus making him/her subconsciously attracted to a high-control environment. ..."

    Seems to describe to a "T", the underlying agenda of the Watchtower Society. In other words, the ideal potential convert to the cult may be emotionally hampered, may have lingering issues of immaturity that renders them highly vulnerable, but the Watchtower Society's treatment of its followers seems deliberately designed to further handicap, cripple and hobble the convert's abilities to develop adult maturity, thinking skills, and independence.

    In other words, they seem to capture immature people, and repeatedly "infantilize" them still further in order to obtain a nearly iron-clad control over them and maintain that control in the face of all reason, logic, and clear demonstrations of the duplicity, manipulative agenda and behavior, and financial dishonesty of the Watchtower Society.

    Hope this helps...

    Zid

  • OUTLAW
    OUTLAW

    People who Fell Off their Bike Alot as Children and Didn`t wear a Helmet..

    Are most Likley to become JW`s..

    http://cache2.asset-cache.net/xc/89850494.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=A5C9C13351D9C3B762F7C849F049CF9BED65F97CCED11D15A868B27A754393A7

    ............................ ...OUTLAW

  • wasblind
    wasblind

    I was a Blind fool, who almost destroyed the lives of me and my daughter

  • LV101
    LV101

    YES, I believe it's because of bad, LOSER, breeders/parents. that word "parents" is way too good for the disordered characters/losers and i hope there's a HELL these demons go to. it's very difficult to understand how God could plan the so called family arrangement.

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