Why Not Reject 1st Century Org. as God's ?

by Explorer 12 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Explorer

  To All Those Offended By The WT's Behavior :

  One of the biggest cause of confusion among loyal ones to the WT Org. today, and those dissenting, is the very concept of what to expect from Jehovah's Organization on earth.

  I myself find solid Biblical grounds for believing the current people of God in earth are no different TODAY from those early Christians of the 7 congregations the apostol Jhon speaks about in the book of Revelation. Many of those ppeople were lacking real love, many others were judgemental of others, without full understanding of some parts of the scriptures, some even involved in fornication and unclean activities, and even others were just wolves and predators of their brothers's faith.

  Yet no one here believes they were not God's Organization at that time...why?, I mean they were so clearly not the image of Christ. Yet they were true christians weren't they?. My point is, Jehovah's Organization on earth has NEVER been what we humans expect, why? because we expect the wrong things, and do not understand Jehovah's purposes well, as He kindly remind us of in The Scriptures.

  Anyone who reasons now Jehovah's Witnesses are not Jehovah's people on account of thier terrible mistakes, and even sins, fools himself with another kind of reasoning to get to the conclusion that the 7 Congregations of Asia, the apostol Paul spoke about, were however in spite of those SAME grave sins, the authentic congregation of the living God.

  I think all the problems and issues regarding the WT will have to be eventually taken care of, just like it has always happened in the past with Jehovah's people when they have needed discipline. If that were not the case, one would have to come up with the answer to the question What's the difference between those two groups?. If one today is not God's people on account of its fine works, what qualifies the other in the past to be the real thing in spite of all the unclean things going on among them? I mean... they were champion fornicators accordind to Paul, among a whole lot of other unbelievable actions for a Christian. Could it be that none of these two qualify as TRUE Christians.

  What kind of criteria do we follow to discard one group but to keep the other as a model to look up to? Do we read different versions of the scriptures regarding the poor and even sick spiritual state of those congregations? Why don't we reject First Century so called Jesus followers as TRUE Christians? Is there an UNBIASED and logical answer to this question?

  Sincerely,

  Explorer
• 

  jukief

  I know this isn't the answer you're looking for, but I also reject the idea of an early Christian congregation because I'm agnostic. I don't see any valid proof that the Christian god even exists, let alone that he had/has an organization. So whatever arguments people might find in the Bible are meaningless to me.

  Personally, I think *all* organized religion stinks.
• 

  rekless

  If you beleive the Bible and and the Bible says there were mericles and blah,blah,blah then then you beleive the mericles happened...but there is not any reason to beleive the so call modern day orgis of God, because there is not any proof that their prophecies have come .
• 

  SixofNine

  Yet no one here believes they were not God's Organization at that time...

  whoa! Not so fast. I certainly don't believe those people were doing anything more than building another religion. A worthless activity, if you ask me.
• 

  indireneed

  I think that you've brought up a really interesting question. To make it a little more concise, are the people of God still the people of God even if they are imperfect?

  This has been the question for centuries and has caused hatred, death, strife, etc. When the Protestants broke from the Catholics, a huge rift formed in the Christian congregations (that had before been held together by repression and domination) that caused its splintering. The JWs are a splinter group with some rather different doctrinal issues, but all in all they profess the same ideas.

  Therefore, why do we accept one Christian religion and not another? The JWs feel that it is simply the presence of Satan - a rather easy person to blame everything on. Thus, anyone who is not a JW is a part of Satan, and Satan caused these problems to occur . . .

  The dividing line comes in places like Revelation that lead to speculation about the 'Great Whore's' identity. Catholicism? Christendom? Another religion?

  Perhap's John's thoughts were about the Roman empire. Perhaps they weren't. People have been trying to make an argument because nothing really fits this prophecy.

  So, people hate each other, very unlike what Jesus did while he was on earth. Christianity was to be meek, humble, not self-haughty. But everyone who feels they are right and others are wrong are being exactly these things. Yes, Jesus denounced others, but he was superhuman. We have no right. That was his point.

  So, should a true Christian try to find his own path? Yes, definitely. Should a true Christian denounce other religions. I don't think so. I think that is against what Christ taught. Hate the acts - if you think fornication is bad, then don't do it. But don't hate the religion. It's time Satan got a break.
• 

  rem

  To All Those Offended By The CATHOLIC CHURCH’s Behavior :
  
  One of the biggest cause of confusion among loyal ones to the CATHOLIC CHURCH today, and those dissenting, is the very concept of what to expect from Jehovah's Organization on earth.

  I myself find solid Biblical grounds for believing the current people of God in earth are no different TODAY from those early Christians of the 7 congregations the apostol Jhon speaks about in the book of Revelation. Many of those ppeople were lacking real love, many others were judgemental of others, without full understanding of some parts of the scriptures, some even involved in fornication and unclean activities, and even others were just wolves and predators of their brothers's faith.

  Yet no one here believes they were not God's Organization at that time...why?, I mean they were so clearly not the image of Christ. Yet they were true christians weren't they?. My point is, the CATHOLIC CHURCH on earth has NEVER been what we humans expect, why? because we expect the wrong things, and do not understand Jehovah's purposes well, as He kindly remind us of in The Scriptures.

  Anyone who reasons now the CATHOLICS are not Jehovah's people on account of thier terrible mistakes, and even sins, fools himself with another kind of reasoning to get to the conclusion that the 7 Congregations of Asia, the apostol Paul spoke about, were however in spite of those SAME grave sins, the authentic congregation of the living God.

  I think all the problems and issues regarding the CATHOLIC CHURCH will have to be eventually taken care of, just like it has always happened in the past with Jehovah's people when they have needed discipline. If that were not the case, one would have to come up with the answer to the question What's the difference between those two groups?. If one today is not God's people on account of its fine works, what qualifies the other in the past to be the real thing in spite of all the unclean things going on among them? I mean... they were champion fornicators accordind to Paul, among a whole lot of other unbelievable actions for a Christian. Could it be that none of these two qualify as TRUE Christians.

  What kind of criteria do we follow to discard one group but to keep the other as a model to look up to? Do we read different versions of the scriptures regarding the poor and even sick spiritual state of those congregations? Why don't we reject First Century so called Jesus followers as TRUE Christians? Is there an UNBIASED and logical answer to this question?

  Sincerely,

  rem

  "We all do no end of feeling, and we mistake it for thinking." - Mark Twain
• 

  metatron

  Why not reject this Witness obsession with an organization???!!

  There are good people
  There are bad people
  It was like that in the 1st century
  It's like that now

  Thinking of 1st century Christians as an organization is a fallacy.
  The "Governing Body" back then did not establish a strict
  chain of command hierarchy. Paul makes that clear in Galatians,
  when he talks about his ministry being given him by Jesus - without
  consulting with the "Governing Body". Fred Franz realized this
  also - and gave a talk about it to a Gilead Graduation assembly.
  He found fault with the whole "Governing Body" concept.

  Another example of flawed Witness thinking is the "faithful and
  discreet slave". Who is this slave? ANYBODY THAT IS FAITHFUL
  AND DISCREET!!!!!!!!! That's just how simple the whole interpretation
  is! The Watchtower view of this text is so stupid, it's barely
  worth debating.

  metatron
• 

  Utopian Reformist

  EXPLORER:

  Unfortunately, a couple of years ago when I started researching the WTBS & JW faith online, I did exactly what you did here today. I thought the obvious answer was so simple that anyone could figure it out by just lookng at revelation.

  Then I tried in a loving and kind way (as you have) to "rescue" or "counsel" others who appeared to be attacking the WTBS & JW's for simply making errors and succumbing to human imperfections.

  Then, I stopped and began reading for a change. After I had spent considerable time reading different books, different sites, I then started to see another picture, a new picture. You need to make your own discoveries. It's to easy to "pop-in" and watch the discussions and then inject some basic teaching we may think is revolutionary, simple and radical enough to capture attention and win someone over, but it's not.

  I thought to myself "why don't they see", "they just want to sin", "it's all lies", "they just want power" and a million others. It's amazing to find out honest people still exist (maybe not many) and there is peace and friendship in the world, if you make the effort. All humans thrive in peace, love and freedom. You'll see.

  In the end, there isn't anything new under the sun. Outside of the WTBS & JW's, you will find that hundred and thousands of people, researchers, doctors, lawyers, scientists, psychologists, laymen, psychiatrists, former overseers, former elders, former pioneers have already spent and dedicated untold effort in researching and exposing the real "truth" about the truth.

  If you are sincere, as when you learned their version of the truth, keep your mind open and learn. Feel free to challenge and cross-reference what you learn, it only helps. Soon, you too will realize why the WTBS & JW's (like all religions) are a "racket and a snare".

  No wonder Rutherford used those words, it takes one to know one, and as a lawyer, he knew, he knew for sure!
• 

  Adonai438

  Dear Explorer
  Hi!
  You have made one little mistake here. Not everyone leaves the WT because of things humans did to hurt them or sin they observed. Some did but many do not. Many I know -more than I can count!-- left because scripturally the JWs are unfounded. I don't arbitrarily say who is and isn't christian based on how much they sin. But according to the Bible there is one truth and one truth only. One WAY, One TRUTH, One LIFE. I am saying that a true christian (or christian denom/church) must follow the essential truth. Christian liberty allows us to have differing oppinions on small issues (like what kind of music to worship to) but the big stuff (like who God is) essential to whether you are a true Christian. I (and God would rule out JWS not because they sin but because their doctrine is not scriptural and they do not follow what the Bible says. Please do not generalize ex-JWs as leaving for petty reasons or human influances because some of us left because we read the Bible and found JWs religion is one of the 'other gospels' we are warned to reject.

  I really do care about all JWs and hope and pray for them daily and do what I can to show them the true Yahweh of the Bible. So, if you care, feel free to e-mail me. <>< Angie
• 

  BluesBrother

  The first century cong. may have suffered all sorts of human shortcomings ,ie, sins , but at least they had the truth! they did, as Paul once said preach "Christ impaled" and the ressurrection and that was it in a nutshel.

  Lots of us have suffered from ill treatment in the congs. but that is not the point of contention . It is when you start to read, start to think that real doubts creep in .. then you think the "unthinkable" and realise that it is just not a sustainable argument . One by one the beliefs crumble like a house of cards.. I would put up with all sorts of hassle from the "brothers" if I could still see that the concepts were sound.