In Loving Memory of All The Insanity (page 2)

garyneal

Rather than repeat the cycle, I just stopped there and said, "I'm sorry, I just don't get it." He never could explain it.

Don't you get it Ding, you weren't being meek and teachable.

Perry

I hope my illustration showed that Jehovah's Witnesses REJECT :

1. The New Covenant with its inherent forgiveness of sins

2. Universalism

3. Works (they claim)

So, they have absolutely no coherent answer WHATSOEVER on how their sins are forgiven. How on earth can they even begin to imagine themselves competent to the calling of believers below?

1Peter 3: 15 - be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you

This is the central issue that JW's should be hounded with at every possible opportunity. I offer as usual a $10,000 reward to any JW who can provide even one scripture showing how a person can now have their sins forgiven outside of the New Covenant as they are.

designs

Perry-

Your God is crazier than the God we use to know by a country mile...

SweetBabyCheezits

So, they have absolutely no coherent answer WHATSOEVER on how their sins are forgiven.

Perry, do you have a logical answer as to why we're paying for the sins of our ancestors in the first place? Why do we even need redemption?

"If I owe a person money, and cannot pay him, and he threatens to put me in prison, another person can take the debt upon himself, and pay it for me; but if I have committed a crime, every circumstance of the case is changed; moral Justice cannot take the innocent for the guilty, even if the innocent would offer itself. To suppose Justice to do this, is to destroy the principle of its existence, which is the thing itself; it is then no longer Justice, it is indiscriminate revenge."

-Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason

EDIT: This is the central issue that JW's fundamentalists should be hounded with at every possible opportunity. I offer as usual a $10,000 reward to any JW fundamentalist who can provide even one scripture shred of evidence showing how a person can now have their sins forgiven outside of the New Covenant as they are we came from a single, perfect human couple who sentenced subsequent generations to sin and death by eating a bad piece of fruit. (Holy books need not apply.)

mindmelda

I think Perry's point is that Witness doctrine, however goofy, does not really follow the Bible, however goofy you think the Bible is.

You may not find any validity to the Bible itself, which is your privilege, of course, but whatever Witnesses are teaching, it's not really Biblical as they claim.

You might as well join a religion or organization or whatever group you want because the people there are comfortable to be around, have common goals with you, can help you in some fashion, are who you want to socialize with, because arguing doctrine or philosophy all day is crap.

Every philosophy or doctrine or religion is dear to those who put stock in it, it's as simple as that, humans seem to love big sweeping statements of belief that are almost impossible to prove, but make them feel good. It's akin to flag waving and politics. I've seen people switch political parties over night too because the one they formerly belonged to adopts a policy that is outright antagonistic to them or they personally disagree with. Religion is the same way because they're based on the same thing, IDEAS. Ideas aren't that tangible and either sound good to you or don't, but proving them is entirely another matter.

The more Witnesses change their beliefs, the more members they will lose simply for that reason. They will inevitably alienate people who refuse to go with the changes for one reason or another, not because it's provable or unprovable, but because it doesn't suit them or is downright harmful.

designs

Perry always claims to answer questions, except when there's bacon wrapped around the bait. Tuff questions, no answer, JW or Evangelical take your pick.

mindmelda

I agree, it's pointless to argue doctrine. People don't join churches for doctrine, most of them aren't overly familiar or even care what their churches doctrines are unless they become too harsh or intrusive.

What Perry writes above also demonstrates that the fact is that Witnesses DON'T teach what the vast majority of the Christian religions teach on this particular matter and it does seem that what the Bible says about salvation is closer to conventional Christian teaching.

That doesn't mean anyone can prove that the Bible is dead right or that this makes Christianity the only religion that's meaningful, but it does mean that the Witnesses simply can't support their claim to teach the truth from the Bible.

AK - Jeff

That doesn't mean anyone can prove that the Bible is dead right or that this makes Christianity the only religion that's meaningful, but it does mean that the Witnesses simply can't support their claim to teach the truth from the Bible.

Nor can anyone else, mm. "Teach the truth from the Bible" seems to be the point to me. No one can show that anything of the sort [truth in anything close to absolute form] exists within that silly book. The book is absolutely clogged with contradiction, false reasoning, judgmentalist attitudes, genocidal references from and by 'god', sexist and racist viewpoints.

In addition, it has then been dissected and regurgitated by thousands of 'sects' of Christianity - all or most of them pronouncing afterward that they have found 'truth' - yet if compared over the ages, or just within an age of history, none of them agree. Indeed, within your church of choice, you can probably segregate a hundred, or a thousand differing prismatic opinions about even the most 'core' doctrines.

Perry [and his ilk] are everywhere. They yell from the housetops "Come, drink water free [as long as it is MY water, MY definition, MY doctrinal explanations]". How is any of that different in any way from what Jehovah's Witnesses do? How is one insane version of insanity [believing an ancient book filled with hatred and bigotry and blood-lusting god] better than another insane version of insanity [believing an ancient book filled with hatred and bigotry and blood lusting god]?

As long as Christians do this - rather than adopt a rational perspective and introspective - they will forever flounder in the same mire for which they denounce all other sects, be their condemnation directed at Jehovah's Witnesses or another. Many have leaped from a frying pan to a fire while proclaiming freedom that they do not have. Sadly, this 'THE TRUTH' they miss.

Jeff

In Loving Memory of All The Insanity

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