Why did Jehovah preach the Good News to dead people?

by moshe 19 Replies latest watchtower scandals

  • moshe
    moshe

    It's one of those , Aha!, moments that hits you right after you leave the KH. If Jehovah picked the WT Society back in 1919 as his one true Christian congregation and then asigned them and only the International Bible Students the big work of preaching the King and Kingdom, at those famous,

    ,uh-hum, , Cedar Point conventions, then WHY did Jesus start the big work so early, when He knew everyone who heard the life saving message from Rutherford's gang was going to be dead in a few years- everyone was going to the grave, not straight to the New System of things. Just try and get a JW to explain that paradox.

  • Alfred
    Alfred

    Very good point Mosche...

    And I can almost predict the WT response to that one... "The reason is so that the 1st generation of annointed christians could plant the seeds and then properly prepare the annointed christians of the 2nd "overlapping generation" for the harvest work in the last days."... or something to that effect. The GB will then dig up some random out-of-context Bible verse and add it to their response just to make it appear "Biblical" rather than something that appears to be pulled out of their crappers... they always do.

  • villabolo
    villabolo

    Moshe:

    "He knew everyone who heard the life saving message from Rutherford's gang was going to be dead in a few years- everyone was going to the grave, not straight to the New System of things. Just try and get a JW to explain that paradox."

    Moshe, it's been a while snce you've used Watchtower logic, hasn't it ?

    Let me elaborate on what Alfred said.

    Jesus started sloooowly, nurturing and growing his organization bit by bit. They could only save enough souls, for the time being, to keep their organization well staffed. The rest who croaked and will cotinue to drop dead, throughout the (redefined) eternally elastic "Generation", will simply pop out of the ground after Armageddon? Isn't that wonderful?

    Villabolo

  • dgp
    dgp

    Of course Jesus knew that the Millions Then Living Would Get to Die. He had a fit of sense of humour and told the Society otherwise, but he was only kidding.

    In the same line of thought, why do witnesses preach to us despicable worldlies? Wouldn't it be better if they DIDN'T, so we could have a second chance after the Big A? I think, knocking on so many doors for no answer would convince anyone that the Birdfeed class isn't paying attention anyways, but perhaps they would if they saw great things happening right before their eyes, like being resurrected, for example. Don't you think it's best NOT to preach?

    Eh?

  • sir82
    sir82

    Shoot, I'd go even one better...regardless of JW / Bible Student / Rutherford understanding at the time...

    Why start the preaching work in 1919, if the end would delay 90+ years and everyone who heard the message would die of old age anyway?

    For the 1900 years prior to 1919: Everyone gets an automatic resurrection.

    People who heard the message in the 1920's & 30's: All have died & get an automatic resurrection.

    Net difference: Absolutely none.

    So why bother starting the preaching work then? Surely Jesus would have known the end would delay 90+ years, right? So why go thru all that effort?

  • djeggnog
    djeggnog

    @moshe:

    It's one of those , Aha!, moments that hits you right after you leave the KH. If Jehovah picked the WT Society back in 1919 as his one true Christian congregation and then [assigned] them and only the International Bible Students the big work of preaching the King and Kingdom, at those famous ... Cedar Point conventions, then WHY did Jesus start the big work so early, when He knew everyone who heard the life saving message from Rutherford's gang was going to be dead in a few years- everyone was going to the grave, not straight to the New System of things. Just try and get a JW to explain that paradox.

    What "paradox"? There's no "Aha!" moment here. If you thought that you could maybe go toe-to-toe with me on the Bible, you'd lose (modesty isn't one of my strongest virtues, but I'm working on this), and regarding the history of Jehovah's Witnesses, I have at times gotten a few of the years wrong myself, but as far as this bit of history is concerned, you're dead wrong here. All of the men that preached the good news of the kingdom of God, all but the Lord Jesus Christ, who was resurrected, died, and Jesus knew that his apostles would all be dead when he indicated on Nisan 11, 33 AD, that Jerusalem would be trampled on by the nations "until the appointed times of the nations are fulfilled." (Luke 21:24)

    Note that these appointed times weren't "fulfilled" or completed until the year 1914, so it would be absurd for you to be suggesting here that the preaching campaign that had been underway since it began back in the year 29 AD began "early" when Jesus has been ruling over those of his anointed brothers that were called and chosen by God, not just during the first century AD, mind you, but over those that were called and chosen by God from the second century AD onward, on through to the 20th century when it was Jesus officially began to invisibly rule as king of the world in the midst of his enemies. (Revelation 11:15; Psalm 110: 2) Although they could not have known what came to be revealed during the years that preceded the end of these "appointed times," they certainly knew Jesus to have been the Son of God and they were certainly teaching others to this effect well before the 19th century.

    As a matter of fact, @moshe, there were Quartodeciman churches during the second century AD that observed the Memorial of Jesus' death as had been done by Christians during the first century AD. The "Church Fathers" or "Apostolic Fathers" that lived during the second century AD -- Clement of Rome, Ignatius and Polycarp -- did not believe God to be a Trinity. In the 15th century, the Socinians denied the Trinity as did the Anabaptists. There was an Anglican clergyman during the 19th century -- John Aquila Brown -- that back in 1823 wrote a publications called "Even -Tide," which pointed out that the Gentile Times would be fulfilled in either 1914 or 1918, so contrary to popular belief, Russell wasn't really the first one to break the case.

    There were witnesses to Jehovah's praise way before Charles Russell and Nelson Barbour first began to herald Jesus' presence in 1874. Ok, they were wrong and were 40 years early, but this wasn't unusual, for Jesus had related a parable back in 32 AD in which he pointed out that he would be going away for awhile "to a distant land to secure kingly power for himself," because his apostles had wrongly imagined that "the kingdom of God was going to display itself instantly." (Luke 19:11, 12) Jesus said: "I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things" (Matthew 28:20), so there's no reason to conclude that followers of Jesus Christ weren't being called and chosen by God to become heirs of the heavenly kingdom before Pastor Russell came along. Of course, you are free to believe what you wish, but I think it to be ignorant to conclude that Jesus wasn't "with" his followers through the centuries while these appointed times were running their course.

    Joseph Rutherford only became the president of the WTS after Russell's death, so what difference does it make that Rutherford should be launching a preaching campaign about the king and his kingdom at an international convention held in Cedar Point, Ohio, back on September 5-13, 1922? I know you wrote "1919," but these years are what I have called "the political years," when Rutherford and seven others that had been incarcerated in the Atlanta Penitentiary for some nine months were finally released on bond. It was actually on September 8, 1922, when a banner displaying the words, "Advertise the King and Kingdom" were unveiled at this 1922 Cedar Point convention.

    The convention to which you refer, the one that convened on September 1-8, 1919, wasn't an international convention, but, as I said above, I sometimes get dates wrong, too. I see no paradox. If you care to elaborate, I'll listen; maybe you meant to say something else, although it seems clear enough to me that scorn for Jehovah's organization is what drove you to point out an irony that even doesn't exist in this thread. If instead you should decide not to pursue this thread, I'll be ok with that, too. Perhaps I should review some of your other posts here on JWN to see if this post of yours is just a fluke on my part, a bobble on your part, or if your posts are typically laced with ignorance and whimsy. I believe I've posted to a few of the same threads to which you have also posted in the past, and if I can find the time to review them, I will.

    BTW, @moshe, the good news was preached then, in 1919, just as it is being preached today, to wit, to the living, not to the dead.

    @djeggnog

  • elderelite
    elderelite

    @eggnug.. You quoted jesus words "i with you all the days till the conclusion of the system of things"

    Which system of things? Wouldnt those words be hollow if he spoke them to people who he KNEW would die 2000 years before the end?

  • civicsi00
    civicsi00

    Just for the sake of clarity, I have another question for djeggnog:

    Which version of the good news are you talking about? The version that the apostles preached ("of a coming kingdom") or the version that Rutherford introduced in 1929 (of a "kingdom established in 1914")? If the latter, then where in the Bible is this version of the good news mentioned? If the former, then why don't JW's preach this message today?

  • designs
    designs

    Good ol Cedar Point Ohio, who would have thought it was the center of the universe.......

  • The Finger
    The Finger

    i met a brother today whom i've known for 25 years and we got in to conversation. he came across as concerned about the new generation teaching and the fact that he was relatively bright at school but has only worked a very mundane job since leaving along with the fact that he has never and most likely never will be an elder.

    he commmented on his father, who is in his eighties, and how his father although a witness of many years commented years ago how awful the "millions now living" campaign was and what a lie it was.

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