Who REALLY IS the Faithful and Discreet Slave? (page 3)

whathappened

All these comments are so good. I also recommend the book Captives of a Concept. It rips the FDS to shreds.

Pahpa

If one accepts the explanation of most commentators that Mt. 24:45

is just an encouragement for Christians, especially the leaders,

to stay faithful and alert until Christ returns then the whole basis

for the Watchtower's position falls apart. One might compare the

account of Luke 12:42-48 about the "servant" to see the parallel.

Luke adds a third condition of a servant who "does not know"

and receives the lesser punishment. According to Watchtower

doctrine, who would be in this "class?"

41 Then Peter said: “Lord, are you saying this illustration to us or also to all?” 42 And the Lord said: “Who really is the faithful steward, the discreet one, whom his master will appoint over his body of attendants to keep giving them their measure of food supplies at the proper time? 43 Happy is that slave, if his master on arriving finds him doing so! 44 I tell YOU truthfully, He will appoint him over all his belongings

Who was Jesus referring to, was it the apostles? Why would Peter ask Jesus of this? Would Jesus ask who "really" is the faithful steward, the discreet "ONE" who his master "will" appoint if he was referring to the apostles?

At which time will Jesus appoint "Him" over his body of attendants?

Jesus is referring to one single person not a group of individuals. If it was 144000 why then do only a small group lead instead of the entire 144000? And if the governing body is the slave why is it they have not died while other of the group "have" to die?

Their teaching does not hold weight whatsoever.

The point is, the slave is "One" person, "One" individual who will be appointed at the correct time. The slave is without authority until Jesus arrives upon the earth, at which time the slave will be appointed.......otherwise who else knows that this person is in authority over Jesus Christs belongings which would consist of what? This would be authority over all the people upon the earth (body of attendants or congregation which will consist of the entire world). Does that make sense? If Jesus riegns in heaven then the slave will reign upon the earth.

Estephan (the slave)

Black Sheep

Hi Tim,

Welcome to the forum.

When I finally realised, at age 52, that all was not as it seemed, I floundered around for a while then decided that I couldn't trust anything that I had been taught about god. Everything I thought I knew was tainted by the culture I had been born into, the family I had been born into and the religion I had been born into. Even the holy book on my bookshelf was there by chance. It could just as easily been the Qur'an, the Book of Morons or the Baghdad Guitar. "Where else do you go?" didn't come into it. Where I was was the problem.

Who REALLY IS the Faithful and Discreet Slave? was a question that was only relevant if the holy book chosen by my parents was kosher. Genesis didn't even make sense to me when I was a kid, and that was only the first chapters of the first book. Jesus killing a fig tree (Matthew 21 & Mark 11) to show off to his mates made no sense at all. Attempts to explain it made less sense than the original texts and mostly ignored what was written anyway. The real question was .... how did I manage to suppress my brain function for 52 years and still manage to put on an outward impression of sanity????? In hindsight, I realise that I hadn't always left that impression and some of the things I had said make me cringe. It is almost a relief that most of the friends I grew up with have passed on. God didn't kill them like my Dad said he would .... they just died from accidents and disease .... just like the Atheists said they would.

Cheers

Chris

Heaven

Technically speaking, slavery has been outlawed in most industrialized nations for a number of years. The "faithful and discreet slave" has become irrelevant as a specific term; as it was meant in ancient times. In modern terms we look at it figuratively.

I think boyzone is correct in the Bible's use of the term. Prodigal Son is correct as well. My own personal interpretation is that it means we are all the F&DS, as we work each day to help ourselves and others. Slavery itself is oppressive and not based on a foundation of Love. Anything not based in a foundation of Love eventually leads to revolution and change. Slavery is one ideal that was not self-sustaining and eventually died out.

TimothyT, have you given any thought to researching other faiths? If you do, I think you will see a common theme throughout. Christianity is a faith that has borrowed most of it's ideals from other more ancient belief systems.

The bottom line is the principle of Love. Everything is Energy and we all have it within ourselves. It is not something exclusive to a specific group of believers.

ProdigalSon

Yes, everything in the Bible, whether it be "Jerusalem", "Israel", "Christ", the "Seven Churches", the "Faithful and Discreet Slave", or my favorite, the "Prodigal Son"... applies to YOU. YOU are the potential GOD waiting to be discovered. YOU have already achieved everything in past lives. It is now up to YOU to remember and claim what you have already earned.

Este

In response to all of the above.......point of the bible is to teach us how to love one another with a historical lesson on what not to do.

And all teachings in the bible do "not" apply to everyone as a whole, otherwise there would not be distinctions from one group to another i.e. Abrahams offspring, Little Flock, Great Crowd etc. etc.

Estephan

DJPoetech

Simplest explanation I can think of.

Jesus died with all authority in heaven and on earth.

So, why do we struggle with religious authority on earth?

Ans: We don't have to. There is no religious authority on earth.

PSacramento

Dj has grabbed the correct, kicked it in the teeth and made it his own !!

Quite correct, there is NO religious authority on Earth.

TimothyT

Hi everyone!

Saltyoldlady: I would love to have a look at the book you have quoted! I wouldnt find reading such a book to be difficult! I think id find it quite interesting actualy! I have learnt that in order to advance ones thinking, it is important to criticise even your own beliefs and thoughts! If i didnt, i may never find out what the REAL truth is! I welcome your thoughts and ideas. The things you have quoted are very interesting! I will see if i can find this book online! Thanks! :)

Strymeckirules: Brilliant Point!!! The context is SOOOO important! I discussed this verse with some other JWs and they dont agree with my thoughts on it! But im the only one who discussed the context of the scripture. As you said, it is about staying awake! Even if there is a faithful slave now, i can still do my bit now in being faithful to god! Good reminders to keep on the watch! Thanks!

Este: Good questions! I agree! The slave will be appointed when the master arrives! Im not sure if the JW's believe Jesus has arrived yet, or whether he has yet to arrive! If he has arrived (which i think logicaly they would believe) then he has made his choice, but if he arrives during Armageddon or whatever (which is the way i understood his second coming) then he will choose this slave THEN!!! This makes sense to me!

Heaven: I can see why you favour the view that the FADS is all of us! Afterall, it gives us all the responsibility to care for our own needs, and, being accountable to God is something on a personal level anyway, it makes sense. I have looked at many other religions, although my dad was an elder in our cong, he ALWAYS enocouraged me to research other religions and test out EVERYTHING i hear from the KH! He is a good guy and i can see his balanced attitude! Because of it he is almost as skeptical about what he hears from the platform as i am! Like you said... the bottom line: Love! Thats what Jesus taught! We all have ability to love god and appreciate Jesus! After all the scripture says: he that does the will of God remains forever, not, he that is a Jehovahs Witness will remain forever! In some ways, i see how the JW's have gone beyond the things written! (1 John 2:17, 1 Corinthians 4:6)

DJpoetech: Thanks! Nice and simple isnt it! Jesus has all the authority! As good as it may be have a catalyst (The Watchtower) to help me serve Jehovah, i understand that i dont have to be an exclusive member to be saved! Thanks for this!

Thanks everyone!
I appreciate all your comments! Im being enlightened each day! :)
Its crazy because in the past i could never be bothered studying the bible, but now, i cant stop reading it, and every day i do, i see things which make me question the beliefs and ideas i have been brought up! The bible itself encourages this - AND COME ON - ITS SO CLEAR! (1 John 4:1-3) :):):)

Who REALLY IS the Faithful and Discreet Slave?

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