Sounds a little bit like rationalisation, Curtains. Almost like one justifying what happened under his watch by saying he was just doing what was expected of him. You were part of the machine, so you are responsible. However, I take it that your present networking is part of a different machine, one whose objective is the opposite of the other. Just being a member of this board and exposing what you know about the WTBTS has got to be a benefit to those who are searching.
The Watchtower Proselytizer's road to hell
by Nickolas 26 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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sabastious
The "ends" are the consequences of being baptized into the Watchtower. The "means" is proselytizing. If you believe the ends are negative, there is no justification for the means.
Living the life of a Witness requires daily reminding that the ends justify the means. Like you said, the ends actually don't justify the means within the Watchtower framework from a logical standpoint, but nonetheless they are convinced as such.
Both facinating and bitterly tragic simultaneously.
-Sab
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miseryloveselders
Are Jehovah's Witnesses worse than Army recruiters?
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Nickolas
Are Jehovah's Witnesses worse than Army recruiters? Interesting parallel. I think the answer, mle, is circumstantial. There is a place for the use of military might - I think the current effort to oust Gadhafi might qualify, although the jury's still out. Certainly bringing down the Nazis did (with our without headphones). The answer, I think, is no, but it's not a question of what's worse, it's a question of what's bad.
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miseryloveselders
Interesting parallel. I think the answer, mle, is circumstantial. There is a place for the use of military might - I think the current effort to oust Gadhafi might qualify, although the jury's still out. Certainly bringing down the Nazis did (with our without headphones). The answer, I think, is no, but it's not a question of what's worse, it's a question of what's bad.
LOL I like how you used my Hitler avy to add umph to your point. In the same vein that the military is a necessary institution in some cases, I feel the same can be said with JWs. There's a lot that JWs have done and do for people that doesn't get discussed on this forum due to the obvious reasons considering the makeup of those on this forum. The problem lies with the WT overextending themselves on certain matters that shouldn't concern them such as blood and family ties. As far as proselytizing and culpability, as someone who still regularly goes out in field service, my conscience doesn't bother me. I can't speak for other active JWs, but I don't expect to convert anyone in field service. Conversion here in the States is largely a joke. The chances of an American converting are pretty much slim to none, at least in the city that I reside. Field Service is largely a mere formality with no substance in the act, or in the heart of the publisher. At the same time, I feel in some cases JWs might do a good thing by sharing a positive thought from the Scriptures to those in need. Considering problems typical of the inner city, some of those folks need something, if not, anything for that matter to give them something positive in life.
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Nickolas
My perspective is you don't need faith to be a good person or to lead a happy life, and where there is no need to compromise oneself to achieve those things one simply shouldn't. If the compromise one must make extends to compromising the lives of others, then a line has clearly been crossed. That is precisely what has changed me from being tolerant toward the Watchtower to being intolerant. It should not matter to anyone what someone else holds to be true, so long as that person does no harm. It matters not to me if you are a Muslim, but it will matter to me if you promote jihad. It matters not to me if you are a Jehovah's Witness, but it will matter to me if your faith insinuates itself into my life or the life of my family and diminishes it, just as much as you might object if the thing I represent or espouse impacts those you love. You will rather I just not be in the picture.
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sd-7
I think I can agree with you, Nickolas, pretty much. I never helped anyone into the religion myself. But I played my part in giving talks and parts and knocked on doors and spread that message for two decades. Do I ponder the moral consequences of that now? No. Am I responsible for what I did? Absolutely.
But the responsibility exponentially grows the moment you find out you're a party to a lie. If you continue spreading it, you are far more guilty than one who unknowingly spreads it, whatever your reasons for doing so. There is no way to be neutral in this. Either you are responsible for spreading their message or you are not.
This is the chance some people take by staying on the inside. I might have done that myself if my wife hadn't turned me in. I think facing emotional abuse, intolerance, and their smug arrogance has made me a lot less inclined to be forgiving and understanding towards them, as much as I think that might be healthier for me.
But as with any person who realizes he's part of a machine that is corrupt, it requires courage to stand against it. Maybe it requires just as much to fight it from within. I don't know. But you've got to do what will enable you to look in the mirror. It's one of the great challenges of being human.
I hope, for all those who are still in, that there will come a time when you will fight openly against the corruption of this religion. Your sympathies may be elsewhere, but you need to get out in order to be free of responsibility for their actions.
--sd-7
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OUTLAW
Still others, astonishingly, express shame because they are still going door to door and they justify their hypocrisy against their fear of being outed and shunned,
losing everything. There's another word for this. It's selfishness. It's putting your needs above the welfare of others. Whether you are simply callous or cowardly,
the result is the same. How do you qualify your intentions?.....Nickolas
I've been out for decades..I've learned to cut those people some slack..
People still in and know better..Suffer at their own hand..
Some need the time to be able to arrange their affairs..To be able to get out with as little damage as possible..
Some will lose Family/Children/Grandchildren ect..ect..They have decided to stay and enjoy the few years left they have with their family..
It`s not as easy as it seems,to just leave..I did it..But..Not without IrReparable Damage..I paid dearly..
I still pay..
Nobody leaves the WBT$/JW Cult without Damage..The WBT$/JW Cult will Reach Out,to Tear your Life Apart..
They are Relentless..
......................
...OUTLAW -
Anony Mous
Total members: 7,224,930
Baptized: 294,368
Hours spent: 1,604,764,248
Hours spent / Baptism: 5451 hours
Average hours / member: 222 / year = 18.5 / month
So for every 25 years you are/were a member you are 'responsible' for 1 sucker (whom are born every minute). And that is if you did the whole spiel and were a pioneer some of the time. You can recalculate for your average. If you were an 'average' publisher the whole time, you should've been in ~50 years. Don't feel bad.
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PublishingCult
LOL, Jeez, Nickolas, you are not talking about Nazis here, and you are not a damn prosecutor or judge at the Nuremberg trials. Should we hang those who are still in the org and just going through the motions because they haven’t figured out their exit strategy yet? Just because some are still in and going through the routine doesn't mean they are going to cast a net and drag into the org a boatload of babies for the WT to devour. Hell, it's hard enough when you are a true believer to get a householder to be a "newly interested one". The way I see it, the only real damage is if you're still dragging your kids to the KH and out in FS, and they are totally clueless that the JW parent has mentally jumped ship a long time ago.
We’re talking about an organization in which everyone has been snatched and replaced by aliens and they are constantly sniffing out those who aren’t from the home planet. We walk stealthily among them until we can get away, because they will destroy us if they should discover we are human. Some of us need to get out on our own terms.
Now, I am firm believer that there is point when a man (or woman) should cease acting like a helpless victim and take action to get themselves out of the org and do whatever they can to help others to find their way out as well. But we don’t always understand fully what any particular person has at stake, what they have to lose by taking a hammer to everything. When I awakened, I came out swinging against some of the douche bag hypocrites in the congregation and unwittingly and unintentionally did a little damage to those I was trying to lead out of the org along with me. I could have and should have played it a bit cooler.
Meanwhile, I see no harm in a person going through the motions while they figure out the best way to escape. If it makes you feel any better, I have a suggestion:
