An argument against atheism: It's hopeless

by simon17 20 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  simon17

  I hear this critique against atheism a lot. That its simply a hopeless way to live one's life. Believers give this argument, not passionately, but almost desicively, as if CLEARLY a outlook they don't want for life is a wrong outlook.

  Is there anything you can do to reason with such ones? I think religion tends to do this: to blind people to what they want to believe so strongly that the psychological fact that a belief is what they want quietly becomes one of the strongest proofs of it.

  I find my situation with theists is like watching someone buy lottery tickets every day. Day after day, throwing money away. And finally I confront them and show all the rational as to why the odds of winning the lottery are so incredibly small, that its a waste of time. But they look at me and say "why are you being so hopeless? This ticket may very well be the winner! I'm so excited that this might be it. The start of the great tribulation is going to start with Japan. With Libya. With Egypt. With the financial crises." Its almost as if the hopefulness keeps them going and the failures only meld into the next hopeful lottery ticket, building on one another instead of logically undermining the whole misguided outlook.

  Life is a wonderful thing. The end may be hopeless, but that doesn't make it wrong. Its hard to convey that to someone who NEEDS to hope for something better.
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  Terry

  If you gamble on something you have "a" CHANCE.

  If you don't gamble at all you have none.

  That is the argument.

  But, there is another way of looking at it.

  If life is finite and you spend the preponderance of it on preparations for a fantasy, there isn't much ACTUAL and REAL life squeezed in between birth and death.

  There is the time spent on ritual, prayer, false thoughts, plans that are impossible to achieve and thousands of empty conversations that are really about nothing.

  What exactly is HOPE when it is a sock puppet for mental illness?

  Successfull gamblers will tell you that it isn't the chances you take that pays you off in the long run. No. It is how you conserve your resources.

  The bets you fold mean money on your side of the table that could easily vanish down a rat hole called Hope.

  You bet on the sure thing and dodge bad luck.

  All the rest is collecting from the "dead money" who risk all on braving the odds.

  Hope is for suckers.

  The Reward goes to the realists.
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  PublishingCult

  What exactly is HOPE when it is a sock puppet for mental illness?

  That really needs to be printed on a t-shirt.

  The lottery analogy is a good one, and theist's odds are far worse than those playing the lottery. At least with the lottery, somebody usually wins.

  Conversely, I have never heard a valid, rational, or convincing argument for theism.
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  Satanus

  The odds are exactly the same, whether a person is theist or atheist. Believing or not believing doesn't determine whether there is a god, or not. 'Course, believers think that they'll get special treatment, and the unbelievers have a special hot place reserved for them. However, as a group, believers aren't better people than nonbelievers. So, toss out the special treatment expectation.

  S
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  PublishingCult

  Believing or not believing doesn't determine whether there is a god, or not.

  No, however those who do not believe have come to not believe because of the overwhelming lack of evidence for God's existence. God simply does not exist.

  At least with the lottery, we have testible evidence there are winners. With belief in God and the afterlife, we haven't a single shred of verifiable evidence that remotely suggests any of this religious hocus pocus is true.
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  JuanMiguel

  My best friend, an atheist, is anything but hopeless. His whole family are atheists. They're not against religion, but they're just not religious.

  True, I have a hope for something I view as grand after this life, but this doesn't mean I view my best friend as wrong or deceived or blind. I love my friend as he is, for who he is. I don't love him despite the fact of his atheism or anything like that.

  I think the problem lies on people who think that "the others" are blind or being foolish. Religious people often say that of atheists, but we also have atheists say the same things about theists.

  It's just as insulting to say that a someone believes in "hocus pocus," regardless if that other person is a theist or atheist. Both sides have people that have this need (or are at least are unable to control the desire) to speak hurtfully of the other or to look down on the other and elevate their choice or point of view. If we don't dimiss this in ourselves, we can't complain when we are the subject of it from others.

  We are also no better than others when we do this either. We just have different names for our beliefs, but it doesn't improve the way we treat one another. When that is the case, both people have made their convinction ineffective. And I am not one to believe that either choice is futile. On the contrary, I believe we make them so because we're too lazy of a race to fight against these need to call each other names. We love to be hurtful and then deny that we are doing that.
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  tec

  Thoughtful post, Juan.
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  mf6

  I don't know why this is open for debate. It is patently obvious a supreme being doesn't exist.

  Debate on this issue is for the ignorant. It wastes space on the forum.

  Anyone could read posts by Terry (and many others) and see the objectivity of athiest arguments.
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  PublishingCult

  Anyone could read posts by Terry (and many others) and see the objectivity of athiest arguments.

  Indeed.

  A theist's beliefs are based on things that are invisible, unprovable and untestable. Might as well believe in unicorns and dragons. The very existence of god violates the very laws of physics and nature he is supposed to have established. His existence is impossible.

  An atheist doesn't believe in things that are unprovable and untestable.
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  mf6

  I have yet to read a post by any believer in any religion that is logical. They appeal to "faith".

  We would all be better off facing the reality.

  mf6