Jehovah's Witnesses: not even wrong?

by slimboyfat 12 Replies latest jw friends

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  slimboyfat

  In school we had a goofy teacher who used to make fun of some of the wrong answers we would give. If they were really bad his ultimate put down would be to say that our answer was "not even wrong". Little did I know at the time this is actually a technical term coined by a theoretical physicist for a statement that is not susceptible to falsification, we just took it to mean that our answer was very wrong indeed.

  The more I move away from the JW mindset the more I find myself disagreeing, not only with the answers JWs give on various issues, but the questions themselves that frame the debate. In some sense I have come to think that Jehovah's Witnesses are "not even wrong" on the important issues. For instance a Witness might argue, "where else can we get salvation from this system into the paradise earth but through Jehovah's organization?" It's not just that the future paradise is an unprovable assumption, or the idea that the Watchtower is being used by God relies on circular reasoning. But why should a future earth be our focus anyway? Why not instead address how we can make this world a better place for each other here and now? The problem lies not so much with the answer as with the question itself.

  Another issue Jehovah's Witnesses have it drummed into them is more important than almost any other is whether the Trinity is true. Talking tentatively with other Witnesses about various problems with Watchtower teaching and history often people will fall back on the idea that at least JWs are right about the Trinity. That alone means it's the truth. But again to me it is simply the wrong question to start with. What the nature of God really is, even if he does exist, can hardly be proved one way or the other.

  It means I find it harder and harder to relate with Witnesses and even if I want to challenge some points that are made in conversation there is little basis to do so, because more often than not I don't simply disagree with the conclusions Jehovah's Witnesses come to but with the questions they are asking in the first place. The next Witness who says "who else teaches the truth about God not being a Trinity" or "who else offers real hope for the future" I want to say to them, "brother, that is not even wrong".
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  troubled mind

  big thumbs up
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  OnTheWayOut

  It would be easier to start from the assumption that JW's are totally wrong or "not even wrong" on any given matter and go with the opposite of what they say.

  No other Bible-believers teach anything close to their blood doctrine.
  All those things in Revelation they say point to early 20th Century JW's is completely bonkers.
  Tons of whacko religions out there have their Millenium calculations on "The end of the world as we know it" and they are all "not even wrong."
  JW's teachings on college, on men being the head over women, on women wearing a headcover and not speaking to the congregation directly, on field service hours, IT'S ALL CRAP.
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  GOrwell

  the very basic idea of calling the religion the "truth" is telling... very 1984-esque..
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  Satanus

  I agree. They aften start out w a mischaracterization. For instance, they misquote the catholic trinity definition. If they don't see their target at all, how can they destroy it? Not even wrong. I like it.

  S
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  darthfader

  Well States SBF!
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  transhuman68

  LOL. Good point, SBF. Finding the Bible and Christianity crumbling to pieces the more I examine it, a lot of arguments aren't even worth fighting. The whole premise is wrong from the start.
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  Frank75

  Very well put.

  After a lifetime of indoctrination at the hands of my parents, respected family friends and the Org., I came to see that the entire range of unique JW beliefs are in fact a big shell game and artful misdirection....as you point out, it isn't the belief per se but the framework of the belief, or the issue discussed.

  There was an article not too many years back that showed loyalty to Jehober by 2 of the 12 returning spies of Canaan. As the article wound down, the loyalty that Joshua and Caleb showed in the face of prejudice from their peers and leadership at the beginning of article, was compared with loyalty RnF JW's show to the elders or the FDS/Society reps, "apt surrogates" for Jehober (one supposes). With everyone nodding their heads in acceptance. Even though the example of Joshua and Caleb was anything but what was being recommended.

  The best course for those assessing their beliefs IMHO is to wipe the slate and start from scratch. JW beliefs, including Unitarian position are demonstrably flawed.

  Frank75
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  wobble

  Great thread SlimBF !

  I have concluded recently that it is to much wasted effort to discuss JW crap with them , for the same reason you state, "not even wrong".

  And I agree with Frank above, that the best way is to wipe the slate clean. This is difficult to do for anyone in for years, esp. if born-in, I believe I have done it 99%, but the other day I caught myself with a small piece of "Dubthink" going on in my head, quickly dismissed as the nonsense it was, but a vestigial influence lingers, I am sorry to say.

  Certainly, when looking at WT beliefs, and when looking at new ideas, say Evolution ,which Dubs know nothing about, it is necessary to scrap all pre-suppositions, and start afresh.

  I do like that new(to me) expression "not even wrong" , I shall use that !
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  dozy

  Good points , SBF.

  I just find JWs simply exist in a mindset / world of their own that increasingly I just find myself divorced from. I was talking to a JW elder the other week whose whole live revolves around JW activities - studies , giving talks , RBC etc - but it just seemed to me that he was involved in a kind of giant circular ponzi scheme with no real end result (other than providing employment & housing for a couple of thousand Bethelites). His studies never came to meetings (they weren't even going to the Memorial) , the talks were ( essentially) the same ones he had given for 40 years and he & his wife would hardly be described as ones overflowing with "Christian qualities & good works" on any level. But none of this seems to matter. Bizarre.