The futility of political debate on an ex-JW forum

by willyloman 55 Replies latest jw friends

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  willyloman

  This is a forum for fomer Jehovah's Witnesses. That is a cult that drills into its members the concept that the political process is evil, delusional, selfish, greedy, and Satanic. It's fascinating to hear so many political naifs express themselves with such certainty and fervor. You'd think they'd been studying the political system all their lives, when in fact for years they've been trained to parrot the WT's twisted take on the "system of things," of which politics is the driving force.

  Given our collective background, the political opinions expressed by any of us are going to be seriously flawed. Our credentials are extremely thin. We are debating these topics the only way we know how, i.e. the way we were taught to argue: By acting as if we alone possess all knowledge of the topic and that by repeating our pet points, we must somehow be proven right.

  The sad fact is, most of us are completely at a loss to understand the political process and are easily swayed by the simpest argument.

  It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out we are at a historical crossroads in this country, a time when civility has left the room and hysteria carries the day. Functional government has reached impasse. The inmates control the asylum, while we waste time calling each other crazy.

  What's sad is that we should all be setting a better example. We've escaped a mental concentration camp and found real freedom. We no longer have to judge others for what they think, believe, do, or say. Why are we squandering this precious freedom by getting down in the pig poop with extremists? Is that what we left the WT for?
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  james_woods

  I agree. What bothers me most are how nasty the name-calling has gotten lately (including several bannings) on political threads.

  Also, I have noticed that there are a small number of posters who seem to only be here to spout their opinion on political issues - I never see them on the religious, historical, or scientific threads which are really the point of this site.

  Now, if there were just a way to also tone down the lunatic "time of the end chronology" troll threads, things would just about be perfect.
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  ColdRedRain

  Never thought of it that way.
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  Robdar

  Granted, we are at political crossroads in this country while the inmates control the asylum. But I believe you are wrong when you say "we are squandering our precious freedom by getting down in the pig poop with extremists. The exchange of ideas and heated debate can lead to better understanding and, imo, should not be considered a squandering but instead a celebration of freedom.

  Some of us have been out of the organization for a lot longer than we were in it. I see no reason to avoid political discussion when we were denied the right to do so durning our time with the WTBS.
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  Band on the Run

  I disagree and will use myself as a shining example. Political Science was my major at Columbia. NYU Law awarded me a full scholarship for public interest law. I always read the New York Times, supplemented by the Wall St. Journal, Vanity Fair and New Yorker. I read the Economist when I can affo'rd it. B/c of my interest, I attend frequent public events at history museums. I've been a lifelong Dem, working in many campaigns. The Dems paid for me to attend professional campaign school. Election Days I volunteer for the legal protect the vote effort.

  I worked for the U.S. Senate Subcommittee on the Constitution and the National Organization for Women Legal Defense Fund. Presently, I volunteer for a disabled rights group. I read voraciously in my chosen areas. Since I am a lawyer, I must take continuing legal education courses. Writing legal briefs and oral advocacy are stressed.

  I see myself as professional civil rights movement worker. During the Viet Nam war, I attended every demonstration in NY and DC. We lobbied Congress and the White House. I also engaged in demonstrations concerning pro choice rights.

  My soul would love to have philosopher-kings in Plato's Republic rule. It probably is not a good idea. IN contrast to the past, we do not require criteria for the franchise. People used to be male, white, own substantial property and pay poll taxes. We probably have a more effective and robust democracy for enlarging the franchise. Gut feelings are just as valid as intellectual pretension for voting and political involvement. Better civics instruction would be a wonderful idea. People can be politically engaged witthout knowing details. This system has worked well for a long time in the US. It is distributive justice. Obama was hard to pin down. Many believe he walked on water. Yet he has a center based government.

  I cherish my rights precisely b/c the Witnesses denied them. Imagine me, a mere female, having degrees that the schools paid for me, reading ritzy newspapers. I revel in the power. Being an ex-Witness can be a source of assets. Once burned by thought control, one is unlikely to repeat the same mistake. I don't think the majority here represent a specific party. We have cumulative wisdom born of our agony as Wiitnesses. When I started working at the Senate, I spied the capitol dome and started to cry. I interacted with many Senators. Me, the Witness. Only, not the Witness anymore. My education does not entitled me to skewed, multiple votes. Wisdom comes from the people.

  Now, I know members here sometimes believe in the Tea Party. They don't post "this is my opinion." It is the price of a democracy. No one ever claimed that democracy was not messy. George WAshington ensured election to the House of Burgress in VA by buying massive amounts of alcohol for voters. Mike Bloomberg, mayor of NY, spent over $200/voter. I joked to his campaign to just hand me the cash. Overall, I am certain members here are good citizens.
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  Mad Sweeney

  I don't think it is just JWs. I've been on TV show boards, Sports Team boards, literature/author boards, you name it, and political discussion is full of vitriolic ignorance wherever you go.

  Here, I'll add some. DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS ARE DELUDED AND IGNORANT.

  Unfortunately, I think that is for the most part true, though it is a generalization. There are quiet portions of both parties comprised of thoughtful people who believe they are choosing the party that, while it doesn't perfectly represent their views, does so better than the alternative. The problem with those people is that they only see a dichotomy. No other party is given a chance.

  Want to bifurcate a nation and make ignorance the path of least resistance? Set up a two-party system. That is a huge problem in the USA.
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  NomadSoul

  Sweeney hit the nail on the head. Have you ever been on political forums? Holy shit!
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  james_woods

  This is a forum for fomer Jehovah's Witnesses. That is a cult that drills into its members the concept that the political process is evil, delusional, selfish, greedy, and Satanic.

  This was willyloman's primary point - this forum is about escaping from the JWs. Political issues are secondary, if even that.

  And yet, the political threads create most of the nasty name-calling and rancor here. I don't think they are doing anything for the new posters who come here looking for support while getting out of the cult. The abusive language may even drive some people away.

  There was a thread yesterday (started by an actual Tea Party organizer) which rapidly turned into name-calling idiocy. I posted on it to say that I would offer no opinion specifically because of the name-calling. That is going to continue to be my usual policy in the future - it was brought on by the fact that two of my good friends on this forum (beks & bts) just recently got banned from JWN for this very thing. For what it is worth, I had PMs from two different people who basically supported my "no more comments when name-calling starts" policy.

  I think willyloman has made an excellent point with this thread.

  BTW:

  I read the Economist when I can affo'rd it.

  I found something rather ironically amusing about that statement.
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  NomadSoul

  James Wood,

  This forum has different sections. There is a support section if you want support. There is political section if you want to talk politics.
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  Justitia Themis

  I disagree and will use myself as a shining example.

  Band...I am now three-fourths done with my first year of law school, and I am venturing a guess. You're a law professor, right?

  Willy, I think you make a valid point regarding the majority experience; your post was insightful and nicely written. It makes sense that those who are attracted to a religious black/white dichotomy manifest such tendencies in other parts of their lives.

  Band, you can be the "shining example" of the minority experience.