The Ark a question can anybody help????

by moneypenny 10 Replies latest jw friends

moneypenny

While listening to a radio programme this morning I heard an Anglican clergyman, whilst relating the account of Noah and the flood, say that a hole had been made in the side of the Ark and this related to Jesus having a wound inflicted in his side too, therefore Jesus is the spiritual equivalent of the Ark in Noahs day.
Now I prefer that version rather than the JW line that the organisation is the spiritual Ark. I have read the account in Genesis both in the Living Bible and the King James and cannot find any mention of the Ark ever having a hole inflicted in its side.

I wasn't paying much attention to the radio it was just going on in the backround but this got my attention because I was brought up a Methodist and I seem to recall something about this in my dim and distant past. Is my memory playing tricks, can somebody help me with this??????
DakotaRed

Do you think maybe he was referring to the door?
If God's Spirit is filling a Kingdom Hall, how is it that Satan can manuever the ones within that Kingdom Hall at the same time?
moneypenny

Dakota Red
Yes I wondered if he meant the door but I'm sure he said hole, thats what drew my attention.
AGuest

Dearest Moneypenny... may you have peace!
I was not privy to what you heard from the minister, but... in TRUTH... the 'hole' in the side of the Ark would in fact BE the door. And, my Lord, the Son and Christ of God, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH... is the 'door'. John 10:1-8
He is the 'narrow gate'... through which one must enter into the kingdom. The 'word' that is a 'light' to our feet and a 'lamp' to our roadway. The 'path'... in that he is the 'way'.
John 1:9, 14
John 8:12
John 14:6
Matthew 7:14
Psalm 119:105
Isiah 30:20, 21
John 6:35, 57, 58
Revelation 19:13
The "Ark", however, CONTAINS the "Covenant"... the means by which we are 'saved'. To wit:
The Old Covenant pretty much guaranteed death, as death was the price to pay for transgressing it. The New Covenant, however, is a guaranty for life... by those who ENTER it, through the Door, Christ. And one enters, by coming into UNION with Christ... for we cannot save ourselves. We have no life within us, but must TAKE life within us. John 6:48-56 (emph. on verses, 51, 53 and 56).
We must, then, eat... from the TREE of Life, the ROOT of Jesse, the TRUE VINE... SPROUT!... the TRUE 'manna'... the BREAD FROM HEAVEN... the Son of Jah, the Holy One of Israel and God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, which Son's name is... JAHESHUA (JAH Saves) MISCHAJAH (Messiah; Anointed/Chosen of Jah).
If the, we eat from the Tree of Life, so that God and His Son can come to us and make their "abode" with us, by dwelling IN us, by residing ABOVE the "ark" of OUR covenant with God... OUR HEARTS... so that "the Word is IN YOUR HEART"... you will live... by means OF this Word... the spirit of God and this Word... holy spirit... the Spirit... of LIFE.
May the undeserved kindness and mercy of my God and Father, the Holy One of Israel, JAH OF ARMIES, and the peace of His Son and Christ, my Lord, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH... be upon you... if you so wish it... to time indefinite.
Revelation 22:17
Your servant and a slave of Christ,
SJ
Francois

Door, hole, opening, exit, entrance. WHO CARES? Some nut preacher somewhere is three-quarters shit-faced one night around 2:00 a.m. and in his drunken stupor he thinks God is talking to him about the hole in Jesus side. He decides, "Now there's something that's never been run up as a symbol. Let's see what I can make of THIS! GAWD told me to do it!" And then he's off to the races on the radio the very next day. You hear it and BANG, everyone is poring over their bibles. Ya gotta love this place.
I heard once that, "well, don't mention it to Mable...but (big drama, soto voce) Trixie told me that Jehovah's Witnesses worship a black flag with a red snake on it."
"NOooo," I said, "You don't mean it?"
"Yes," she said, almost knocking my cigarette out of the ash-tray reaching for the rum bottle, "I think they're weird."
Well that was something we could agree on and I let it drop. She probably still thinks about the black flag with the red snake on it to this very day.
Hole in the ark. Prolly was the door. Ass hole.
Francois
Earnest

It does seem to me he was referring to the doorway. The NWT correctly translates this "the entrance of the ark" as the Hebrew word used has the meaning of opening, doorway or entrance depending on the context.
For example, it is used to refer to the entrance of a tent(Genesis 18:1,2,10), the doorway of a house(Genesis 19:6,11) and the mouth of a cave(1 Kings 19:13). So the Anglican clergyman seems to be correct inasmuch as the Bible account refers to the opening rather than the door itself. I am not so sure about his exegesis but in the allegorical accounts of the Middle Ages, Noah was always treated as one of the great precursors of Christ. Comparisons were made between the waters of the Flood and those of baptism, between the wood of the Ark and the wood of the Cross, and between the door in the Ark and the wound in Christ's side.
Earnest
"Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun the frumious Bandersnatch!" - Rev. Charles Dodgson
gilwarrior

Maybe they were refering to a window, anyway say hello to James Bond for me moneypenny.
"I have so much love to give, but no one to give it to."
William H. Macy - "Magnolia"
AGuest

Dearest Ernest... may you have peace... and may I address your statement that:
"...in the allegorical accounts of the Middle Ages, Noah was always treated as one of the great precursors of Christ. Comparisons were made between the waters of the Flood and those of baptism, between the wood of the Ark and the wood of the Cross, and between the door in the Ark and the wound in Christ's side."
Thank you. By the spirit of my Father, the Holy One of Israel, JAH OF ARMIES, that is in me by means of His Son and Christ, my Lord, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH, I say to you that the following is true:
1. Noah, my Lord, the Son of God, in that just as he gathered the animals sent to him by God INTO the Ark, as said by my Lord, the Son of God, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH... "NO ONE comes to me... UNLESS THE FATHER DRAWS HIM."
2. The Ark, represents our HEARTS, which contain the NEW COVENANT... for LIFE... by means of which all those who are IN such covenant with God are PROMISED to be 'saved', and from which WE speak to God and from ABOVE which God... speaks to US... by means of His High Priest, His Son, my Lord JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH...
3. The water, represents the water of life, HOLY SPIRIT... through which one must pass, or rather, which must pass OVER one, and with which in IN which one must BATHE... in order to be CLEANSED... so as to BE clean when entering in before the person of my Father, the Holy One of Israel, JAH OF ARMIES... and which 'water' is dispensed from the 'inmost parts' of the 'cistern' that is my Lord, the Son of God, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH...
4. The door, does not represent, but IS my Lord, the Son of God, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH, through whom one must ENTER in order to 'come into' the Ark, and gain access to the person of God... for no one may enter EXCEPT THROUGH THIS ONE.
So that, no matter how you 'cut' it or look at it, in order to see God, hear God, know God... and be known BY God... one MUST... 'know the Truth' and thus, one must...
"KISS THE SON!"
A slave of Christ,
SJ
Earnest

AGuest,
Many thanks for your good wishes and my hope is also that we all have a measure of peace.
However, I have to say that the scripture does not speak as clearly to me as it does to you. You may well be right in understanding that the various features of the flood and the ark prefigured the christian arrangement as many believe. To me there are just a few parallels that are certain:
There is the saying of Jesus where he said "Just as it occurred in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of man..."
And there is the comparison of Peter where he said of the ark "That which corresponds to this is also now saving you, namely, baptism..."
It is true that Jesus said "I am the door..." but I have some doubt that he was specifically referring to the door of the ark. Much can be made of allegory and of OT types prefiguring Christ and christianity. And the Christian writers clearly applied scripture in that way as the letter to the Hebrews clearly shows. But while it is interesting to speculate I rather think that anything beyond scripture only serves to confirm existing prejudice and belief rather than provide a sound basis for faith.
Earnest
"Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun the frumious Bandersnatch!" - Rev. Charles Dodgson
AGuest

Dearest Earnest, again peace to you and thank YOU for your wish of peace. I receive it willingly.
All I can say to you is that which was written 'aforetime', or scripture based on the Law Covenant, mediated by Moses, was that which corresponded to the flesh... and the 'wage' or payment of which... is death. However, that which speaks of the NEW Covenant, mediated by CHRIST... speaks of things of the spirit... corresponds to that which is spiritual... and the 'gift' of which... is life.
Everything, then, that corresponded to that which came BEFORE the New Covenant has its FULFILLMENT... in the New Covenant... and its mediator and high priest, the Son of God, my Lord, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH.
When those who PROFESS to be 'christians' understand this, that it is NOT just abstract but in FACT, they will under everything; in fact, they will know 'all things', including KNOWING God, by means of KNOWING Christ. They will, then, understand:
Both Covenants
The LAWS of both covenants
The 'bread from heaven', which is the TRUE manna
The 'door'
The 'ark'
The 'water' (which, by the water is NOT "h20" and so is NOT water baptism, which is JOHN'S baptism and meant for Israel, both Jews and Samaritans, including Cornelius' household, but rather is 'LIVING WATER' or... holy spirit... and baptism with such spirit, the 'water' of life, which flows from WITHIN my Lord, the 'dispenser' of it... of which John himself said, "I baptise you with water, but there is one coming AFTER me, and THAT one will baptise you with fire... and with SPIRIT.")
They will understand the 'daily sacrifice' and 'constant feature'
They will understand the royal priesthood
They will under the difference between that which is flesh and that which is SPIRIT, and that, as my Lord is recorded to have said, "The FLESH... is of NO USE AT ALL!"
They will then understand that it is by means of 'eyesalve' only that they can 'see', and that by having a 'body prepared' even with its ears 'excavated' that they can HEAR... the Holy One of Israel... by means of the One who appears and speaks on His behalf, the One HE (God) appointed to do so.
But it is not until such ones KISS THE SON... obey and receive him... that these things can take place. And simply saying that one 'believes' will not suffice; indeed, it will put one in line for life, but not for 'revelation'.
Understanding, then, by means of revelation... is wrought PURELY by means of FAITH. And although many of mankind, indeed MOST of mankind profess to have faith, their is a faith of indecisiveness, and one that glorifies demons over the Holy One of Israel. How so? Because man will put his faith only in that which he can see with his PHYSICAL eyes and hear with his PHYSICAL ears; and yet, God is a SPIRIT. And man will say that even the demons can communicate with him, but will deny the power of the very One who allows the demons to exist, by saying that HE, the Holy One of Israel... cannot... and DOES not... speak. That He is mute... and deaf.
But in truth, is it not the FALSE gods that are deaf and dumb? God speaks, Earnest, though His Word. And if you could hear Him, you, too, would have received what I did in the way of knowing just what the Ark, the Door, Baptism, the Law Covenant, the New Covenant... and
"all [other] things" truly are.
You, too, though, Earnest, are not precluded in any from receiving this 'gift' of God's spirit, along with the gift of LIFE, granted by that spirit. All you need do is wish it, thirst for it and HEAR... when the Spirit and the Bride says to YOU, as I do now:
"Come! Take 'life's water'... FREE!"
Your servant and a slave of Christ,
SJ

The Ark a question can anybody help????

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