Interesting debate DjEggNogg. I too tried to rationalize 1914 as being derived from holy spirit. Surely, holy spirit would have directed Russell in this historical turning point. The truth is that he agreed with the date & the formula for the gentile times from men who today would easily have been marked as apostates. Does that sound like direction from holy spirit? Would Jehovah have directed Russell to not only to take this as the truth but then add his own personal spin to it? What association does light have with darkness? Can you build a house on sand and really expect it to stand? Can men who, in print, have claimed to be Jehovah's channel of communication not take responsibility for major doctrinal mistakes. Or should we blame the holy spirit? All this violates the very first commandment that Jesus gave the true religion; to love one another. It's not that I don't believe in either the time of the end or of one true religion. This just isn't the time & you aren't the true religion.
Do JWs still believe in 1914?
by Iamallcool 125 Replies latest members private
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mrquik
Oh, one last thing. As for my experience in the truth. I had 50 years in. Married the PO's daughter. The PO was one of the anointed and knew Rutherford personally. I had dinner with Al Schroeder on numerous occasions as he was a family friend. I was an elder for 20 years. Was on the regional building committee for 10 years. Gave district assembly parts. Was WT study conductor for 10 years. Attended numerous kingdom schools. So I kinda know the "Truth"
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shepherd
Your post was awesome Outlaw. well done. djeggnog will still reject all the evidence of course, as his head is up his own ass, but to those that can still think, you did an awesome job of showing that only the GB are stupid enough/arrogant enough to reject all the evidence that Jerusalem was not destroyed in 607 (A date invented by Russell when someone pointed out 606 did not fit as he had been illiterate enough to forget there was no year zero when counting backwards, yes backwards, from his preferred modern date). djegghead will say Satan has 'planted' the evidence or some other useless half-baked excuse for why he thinks 607 still stands, or use the famous 'I prefer to believe the Bible' when of course we all know that what he means is the GB INTERPRETATION of the Bible, not the scriptures themselves.
When JWs finally dump 607, as one day they will, he will be djeggonhisface yet still arrogantly proclaim in some way he was still right, given the light that Jehovah was allowing to shine at the time. Bullshit of course, but bullshitting is something he has proven himself very good at.
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nugget
you have proved my point. You have quoted from JW literature as the basis for your argument. Any JW can do that. You have not taken into account the body of evidence that 607 is not the correct starting point and have not properly addressed this issue.
Without the benefit of the publications you cannot support the chronology or explain adequately the time line.
I did not suggest you were the only witness able to explain the JW doctrine what I did state is that without the support of the literature most JWs would struggle.
If you were starting from scratch without the societies interpretation could you reach the same end date? No you could not even with the time a times and half a time calculation you would not be able to start at 607.
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The Finger
Djeggnog,
Last night my mother was taken into hospital by ambulance several hours later she was allowed to return to her home. I went and got her and took her home.
She is old now. Something that she never believed would be possible. She really doesn't give a rat's ass as to whether you saw some sporting events or not. I asked her. She would rather have had the removal of wickedness.
She does wonder though how the organization could have been so wrong so many times when it is spirit directed. So she left it some years ago now.
In the book, "God's "Eternal Purpose" Now Triumphing for Man's Good" Published in 1974 and studied at the bookstudy in the spring of 1975. Page 51. It states "Evening of Seventh Creative Day Begins, 4026 BCE.
On page 131 under the heading "Morning" of Seventh Creative Day begins, 526 BCE."
"The first half or "evening" period of God's seventh creative "day" was now closing, 3500 years from creation of Adam and Eve. The morning of this creative day was due to begin at 526 BCE."
In giving the date of the start of the 7th creative day and teaching they were 7000 years long with the last thousand years to be Christ's reign and studying this at the bookstudy in 1975 along with the teaching of the one generation that will not pass away. Surely you could only conclude the spiritual food was off, or Armageddon was imminent.
This is what you said.
And the year when Eve was created, which would have a bearing on when the sixth creative day ended and the seventh creative day began, you see as being totally irrelevant in calculating when the 6,000 years began, right? In all of our literature, Jehovah's Witnesses have been clear to point out that we had determined that the Bible teaches that by 1975 mankind had been in existence for 6,000 years counting from Adam's creation, but at no time have we ever taught that the sixth creative day ended with Adam's creation, for we are fully aware that Eve was created after Adam (1 Timothy 2:13), and that only after her creation did the sixth creative day come to an end. We do expect people to draw, not just any conclusion, not "some sort of conclusion," from the correct conclusion.
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Anony Mous
DJEggNog: Will you refute my last statements any furhter (2 pages ago, you haven't answered them) or do you concede to my points of argument and evidence?
You already conceded that the Watchtower had a doctrine regarding 1975 and that people back then were in expectation of Armageddon happening then. You also conceded that they published an apology for it although you were trying to twist it - please apologize or give a reason not to believe me. Please no circular reasoning or going back to your already refuted original points.
I also gave you evidence that you revert to ad-hominem attacks when you can't make your point - please apologize or give a reason not to believe me.
I also gave you evidence that I was a JW in good standing - please apologize or give a reason not to believe me.
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Joey Jo-Jo
You are also using the 607 debunked starting point that has already been discussed and proved to be erroneous.
djeggnog wrote: You are free to believe whatever it is you want to believe, but there is absolutely no one on JWN -- @Alleymom, @aligot ripounsous or anybody at all that thinks themselves able to prove scripturally that Jerusalem wasn't destroyed in 607 BC, but in 587 BC or in any other year that's out there -- that will successfully be able to debunk the date of 607 BC.
There is biblical and secular data that disproves 607BCE
From the horses mouth (WB&TS mentions all kings during that period)
While tablets can not scripturally prove bible dates they do reconcile with the other biblical date 587BCE not held by Jehovah's Witnesses (but all other religions)
Then there is the issue that Russel linked scriptures to form this 1914 prophecy Jeremiah-Ezekial-Daniel-Revelations, that is totally dependable on 607BCE, however there is no proof that scriptures from these 4 books refer to other scriptures of other books like the 7 times and jesus prophesied something that had occured, etc.
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saltyoldlady
djeggnog - I think you are all scrambled up - necessary to be a good eggnog of course.
But just for fun thought I would share this humorous experience I had a couple days ago. Am currently reading Reveling Through Revelation published in 1962 by J. Vernon McGee from Church of the Open Door.
Regarding Revelation 19:14 (that's the 19th chapter and the 14th verse) "This 144,000 will evidently occupy a unique place in the Millenial Kingdom. They evidently will be in the vanguard with the Lamb when He returns to set up the Kingdom" - page 23 Maybe it was this passage Rev 19:14 that led to the 1914 date? LOL. It is about the heaven being opened and look! a white horse. And the one seated upon it is called Faithful and True, and he judges and carries on war in righteousness. ............verse 14 states "Also the armies that were in heaven were following him on white horses, and they were clothed in white clean, fine linen."
Just struck my funnybone is all!
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OBVES
If I were a Jehovah's Witness with this knowledge of calculations I have based on the Bible I would embrace with a huge joy these dates:
1874 AD,1879 AD,1884 AD,1914 AD,1918 AD,1921 AD,1935 AD,1939 AD,1942 AD,1975 AD ,1999 AD.
1914 AD is so important that those who reject that date are putting themselves in risk before God of the Bible.
1914 AD + 120 years = 2034 AD.
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d
OBVES your information is npt valid and not credible.Research reliable resources next time.